HRMC/PIP. How many of us will actually meet the new criteria?

[warkman]

Well, I have had a look at the assesment for the higher rate PIP for the ability to get a Motability car.
I don't meet the new requirements, as even though I am buggered after 50 mtrs, I don't require q wheelchair from the start.
Am I suddenly not disabled anymore? has the government cured me???

How many of you meet the 11 point requirement?
Rememeber, you will need 11 points from this section to meet the Higher rate requirements:


Activity 11 – (higher scoring descriptors only)

C Can move up to 50 metres unaided but no further. For example: identifies individuals who can move up to 50 metres unaided but then require a wheelchair for anything further. 8 points

D Cannot move up to 50 metres without using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. For example: identifies individuals who can use an aid or appliance to move up to 50 metres but then require a wheelchair for anything further. 10 points

E Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the individual. 12 points


F Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by another person or a motorised device. 15 Points


G Cannot either –i. move around at all; or ii. transfer unaided from one seated position to another adjacent seated position.
15 points

[CTCELT88]

This new PIP assesment is a worry, can see a lot of disabled people missing out on the benefit because of this new assssment. Dont have much confidence in these so called health proffesionals who will be carrying out the assesments.

[Stepheninleeds]

The BB is not just dependent on getting DLA. It is automatic for those on HRM now, but other factors can play a part in it for those who do not get HRM. It might be harder to apply for & even get it, but it is not over. Medical evidence is considered.

[Paul]

Nothing has been set in stone yet, so please don't get yourself worried about things...yet!

Motability haven't actually decided if it will be the higher rate of PIP or both rates that entitle you to the scheme.

[sambo-79]

Hi all i too must admit i am so worried over this new P.I.P it took me over 1 year to win my appeal and i have just put a deposit down(£1199) for a car and my D.L.A is up for renewal in August 2013 and i would be so upset if this P.I.P took my H.R.M. away from me the fact that i would have to hand my automatic car back,i would then have to appeal the decision hopefully win back my H.R.M, but then i presume i would have to pay the A/P again for my automatic??.This is such a stressful time for people that receive this benefit.Sorry for ranting but im so confused when it comes to things like this understanding benefits.

[Stepheninleeds]

It is a worry & nothing we can do right now, we have to hope. I am trying to cut back & make some savings, to help cover it.

[gus]

I got my BB before I got DLA I had to have a walking assessment. The physio who carried it out could not believe I had been turned down twice for DLA. Awarded DLA two months later. If the NHS would give me new knees I could walk better but apparently I am too young. A worrying time for us all.

[Stepheninleeds]

There you go. As I have said before, getting HRM is not required to get a BB, it just means that by getting it you have an automatic right to these things. There are assessments for BB.

Gus, you are too young? They are hitting everyone as older people are told they are too old. People needing treatments in their 40s, 50s, 60s are having to wait 10 or more years, in some cases, until they are really bad. A recent case I know of of a elderly man who could not get surgery, then his legs were becoming gangrenous & they had to amputate them. If they had treated him sooner this would not have happened. For him this was caused by his diabetes.

[gus]

Hi Stephen,
Yes I was told by consultant they would give me new knees when I am 65 as they have to be replaced approx every 17 years. Trouble is I am only 44.Hopefully I will be getting a mobility scooter as my mobility is deteriorating . I also have crohns so need to be able to get to a loo quick at present this is very difficult. The anxiety and stress this causes means I have developed agoraphobia and rarely leave the house. The scooter should make a huge difference and maybe I can get the confidence to go out again.

[Stepheninleeds]

I think you need to challenge that, & for that you need advice, perhaps legal advice. Perhaps the CAB can help point you in the right direction on it. It is worth a try, trying to challenge it as that is a long wait, far too long. It is disgusting. The money you will cost the country waiting is far more than it would cost for them to fix this now. Yet they never see that as the monies come from difference sources so they do not care. From what you have said you need someone to help you fight your cause & case, see if something can be done sooner.

[warkman]

This is the final consultation document
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/consultations/2012/pip.shtml

THIS is you last chance to make your views to this obnoxious change

[Stepheninleeds]

Will do, but if they do not care now.....

[biggallute]

Hi Stephen my advice to you KEEP BADGERING your consultant,I had an accident which goosed one of my legs totally & other not so much but was told "you are to young" I was 45 at the time BUT eventually I had my right knee replaced at the age of 47 & because they had left off to long I ended up having my other knee replaced two years later.



Hi Stephen,
Yes I was told by consultant they would give me new knees when I am 65 as they have to be replaced approx every 17 years. Trouble is I am only 44.Hopefully I will be getting a mobility scooter as my mobility is deteriorating . I also have crohns so need to be able to get to a loo quick at present this is very difficult. The anxiety and stress this causes means I have developed agoraphobia and rarely leave the house. The scooter should make a huge difference and maybe I can get the confidence to go out again.

[Stepheninleeds]

Me? Do you not mean Gus?

[warkman]

So, we now have Motabilities position, confirming that ONLY those on the higher rate of PIP mobility will have Motorbility cars.
Thousands like me will lose their cars and many will become prisoners in their own homes :-(

http://www.motabilitycarscheme.co.uk/main.cfm?type=CNI&ObjectId=2852

[Stepheninleeds]

I was hoping that it would be a little like the Blue Badge, were those who were not on HR may still be accessed. I can see why this will not be the case, but the problem is with PIP how many who should & need to be on HR will not be?

[warkman]

I was hoping that it would be a little like the Blue Badge, were those who were not on HR may still be accessed. I can see why this will not be the case, but the problem is with PIP how many who should & need to be on HR will not be?

the Governments own estimation is that PIP will take out around 500,000 :-(
if 30% of those (and that includes me as I don't need a wheelchair from the doorstep, though any distance walking will destroy my foot) are the estimated figure of Motability takeup, then around 150,000 will lose their cars.

[Stepheninleeds]

It will be shocking, it will trap people in their homes. I need taxis, walking to the bus stop is too far. Walking down the disabled ramp is too far, lol. There are a lot of disabled people not in wheelchairs who cannot walk further than the car.

[CTCELT88]

the Governments own estimation is that PIP will take out around 500,000 :-(
if 30% of those (and that includes me as I don't need a wheelchair from the doorstep, though any distance walking will destroy my foot) are the estimated figure of Motability takeup, then around 150,000 will lose their cars.If that happens, then it wont be good for Motablity. The way things are going though, I can see the scheme's long term future being in doubt.

[paul1234]

If that happens, then it wont be good for Motablity. The way things are going though, I can see the scheme's long term future being in doubt.

From what I have read about the new criteria (if its true), less than half of DLA claimants will meet the enhanced rate criteria. Read it and see if you think you will meet it.

[CTCELT88]

From what I have read about the new criteria (if its true), less than half of DLA claimants will meet the enhanced rate criteria. Read it and see if you think you will meet it.I only scored 10 points on the Mobility part test and would only meet lower rate. I didnt qualify for the care component at all. If this happens for real, then I wont qualify for a Motability vehicle. This is a worry, especially as I am renewing my car this year.

[paul1234]

I only scored 10 points on the Mobility part test and would only meet lower rate. I didnt qualify for the care component at all. If this happens for real, then I wont qualify for a Motability vehicle. This is a worry, especially as I am renewing my car this year.

Many will be in a similar position. I am going to try and not worry about it until it happens. Its going to be a nightmare for motability with tens of thousands of cars having to be handed back early and may threaten the scheme longer term.
Its possible the PIP scores will be amended as its almost impossible to score 12 or more.

[warkman]

Many will be in a similar position. I am going to try and not worry about it until it happens. Its going to be a nightmare for motability with tens of thousands of cars having to be handed back early and may threaten the scheme longer term.
Its possible the PIP scores will be amended as its almost impossible to score 12 or more.

Thats the whole point of the changes Paul.
This Condem alliance is looking at the costs of disability payments and not the social effect, so all they see is a cost saving, they dont care about Motability leasing and would be happy to see it go.
The sad part is that the largest opposittion party, Labour, is very quiet about what they would do if elected, no announcemet to change or remove pIP from them!

[CTCELT88]

Thats the whole point of the changes Paul.
This Condem alliance is looking at the costs of disability payments and not the social effect, so all they see is a cost saving, they dont care about Motability leasing and would be happy to see it go.
The sad part is that the largest opposittion party, Labour, is very quiet about what they would do if elected, no announcemet to change or remove pIP from them!I would vote Labour if they announced that they would remove PIP and go back to the way DLA is at the moment. Cannot see them doing that though. The impact of the change to PIP has a huge effect on Motability, they currently have about 500,000 on the scheme, if the changes happen over 150,000 could lose out . The scheme will have to reflect the changes of PIP or it may not have a long term future.

[paul1234]

I would vote Labour if they announced that they would remove PIP and go back to the way DLA is at the moment. Cannot see them doing that though. The impact of the change to PIP has a huge effect on Motability, they currently have about 500,000 on the scheme, if the changes happen over 150,000 could lose out . The scheme will have to reflect the changes of PIP or it may not have a long term future.

If you look at the criteria to qualify under PIP motability, I would guess only around 20/25% of existing DLA/Motability clamants will qualify and mny will be wheelchair users.

[CTCELT88]

If you look at the criteria to qualify under PIP motability, I would guess only around 20/25% of existing DLA/Motability clamants will qualify and mny will be wheelchair users.If that happens then Motability may not survive. Unless there is a change where the lower rate is accepted. Not sure what the answer is. Just ordered my car today as well, a 1.6 TDI Golf DSG. I fear it may be my last car on the scheme.

[paul1234]

If that happens then Motability may not survive. Unless there is a change where the lower rate is accepted. Not sure what the answer is. Just ordered my car today as well, a 1.6 TDI Golf DSG. I fear it may be my last car on the scheme.

Hope you enjoy the car, we have had almost 3 years of motoring pleasure from a Golf. Did you go for the bluemotion Match? Supposed to do 67.3mpg combined. Hopefully it will not be your last car. Perhaps standard rate will be accepted? Depends how much it is. If its £20 a week, not much use but £40 could be.

[CTCELT88]

Hope you enjoy the car, we have had almost 3 years of motoring pleasure from a Golf. Did you go for the bluemotion Match? Supposed to do 67.3mpg combined. Hopefully it will not be your last car. Perhaps standard rate will be accepted? Depends how much it is. If its £20 a week, not much use but £40 could be.It is the 1.6 tdi match but not the bluemotion. I had a Golf before my Polo and loved it. Maybe Motability will accept standard rate but might expect the difference to be made up. Will have to wait and see. I might not get reassessed till late 2013 or 2014, who knows.

[Lighttouch]

Well my five year lease hire motability car runs out in November this year.

The replacement I'd go for is the new Renault Scenic auto (as it meets my access needs perfectly), with a current deposit of about £2600. However if I were to be reassessed in January 2014 (at the earliest), they may give me the lower rate mobility and withdraw the vehicle after 14 months!

I'm expecting that the resale value of my Motability vehicle will be about £3,500 by November so it makes more sense to me to purchase the vehicle in November and keep it until I know the lay of the land otherwise I'll be seriously out of pocket.

[Stepheninleeds]

Seems everyone will have to do what those of us who cannot drive or are not allowed to, use taxis. I can see Mobility closing as who will they serve?

What happens to all the cars taken back?

[CTCELT88]

Seems everyone will have to do what those of us who cannot drive or are not allowed to, use taxis. I can see Mobility closing as who will they serve?

What happens to all the cars taken back?I work 30 miles away, so it is unlikely i would be able to keep my job if my car gets taken away. I dont think the goverment realise the impact this will have on disabled people who have a car on ther scheme. I watched a interview with Ian Duncan Smith on BBC news a few months ago, he was asked about the fact that up to 500,000 people could lose their benefit, all he said was that there would be more new claiments of PIP, he couldnt care less about the ones who will miss out.

[paul1234]

I work 30 miles away, so it is unlikely i would be able to keep my job if my car gets taken away. I dont think the goverment realise the impact this will have on disabled people who have a car on ther scheme. I watched a interview with Ian Duncan Smith on BBC news a few months ago, he was asked about the fact that up to 500,000 people could lose their benefit, all he said was that there would be more new claiments of PIP, he couldnt care less about the ones who will miss out.
This is the criteria for enhanced rate:-
e. Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. 12 points
f. Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by another person or a motorised device. 15 points
g. Cannot either –
(i) move around at all; or
(ii) transfer unaided from one seated position to another adjacent seated position. 15

If the DWP adopt a strict definition then anyone who can walk at all, even a few steps with huge pain will not qualify. It seems pain, fatigue exhaustion etc are not taken into account, So basically, Motability will just be for wheelchair users.
Fair enough? Why not (the DWP) come clean and say this is whats happening and that is the plan.
As regards Motability, I can see the fleet decimated over the next 4 years.

[CTCELT88]

Article on today's BBC news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17087724

Hopefully they will make the assessments fairer.

[beau]

Article on today's BBC news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17087724

Hopefully they will make the assessments fairer.

You must be joking, their sole aim is to cut the bill regardless of the damage it does to our lives.

[warkman]

172. We recommend that the Government clarifies, in response to this Report, which rate of PIP mobility component will confer eligibility for the Motability Scheme. It should also clarify whether a three-year lease for a Motability car, signed when the claimant was a recipient of higher rate DLA mobility component, will be terminated if that person is found ineligible for the Motability Scheme under PIP. We believe it is important for the Government to provide certainty on these issues before reassessment of the working-age DLA caseload commences.

From the Work and pensions committee report on PIP. So many labour on there, but just a weak set of reccomendations come out. :-(
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmworpen/1493/149309.htm

[CTCELT88]

172. We recommend that the Government clarifies, in response to this Report, which rate of PIP mobility component will confer eligibility for the Motability Scheme. It should also clarify whether a three-year lease for a Motability car, signed when the claimant was a recipient of higher rate DLA mobility component, will be terminated if that person is found ineligible for the Motability Scheme under PIP. We believe it is important for the Government to provide certainty on these issues before reassessment of the working-age DLA caseload commences.

From the Work and pensions committee report on PIP. So many labour on there, but just a weak set of reccomendations come out. :-(
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmworpen/1493/149309.htmNormally there is a £250 termination fee if you cancel before the contract ends, if this happens, who would pay it?

[warkman]

Normally there is a £250 termination fee if you cancel before the contract ends, if this happens, who would pay it?

It's not you cancelling the contract, its Motability by removing your access to the scheme. In those circumstances, you would not be eligable for the £250 coct.

[Stepheninleeds]

And if anyone has to give up their job because they lose their car they will be investigated & told it is not a justifiable reason, & will lose benefits as a result.

The criteria is far too strict. It was even said on the news this morning they are using the Medical Model of Disability. I am a supporter of the Social Model of disability, & so was DLA, it worked because it took into account our needs & abilities. PIP ignores everything the name implies it covers.

[paul1234]

As far as I can see, very few non wheelchair users will qualify for the enhanced rate. If you can walk up to 50m but no more you score 8 points. The overwhelming number of non wheelchair would have to answer yes to this statement. The key words being "UP TO". And the missing key words, fatigue, pain, exhaustion etc...
If you can walk a few steps, no more car.
On a seperate issue I believe if someone takes a 3 year lease and loses DLA to standard PIP they should be able to keep the car the full 3 years and pay the difference. If motability require, pay a couple of months in advance so they can repossess without being out of pocket if you miss a payment.
As it stands if you dont get PIP enhanced, after 4 weeks you lose the car even if you appeal and win. A lot of people must be frankly terrified of what might happen and use their DLA to get a cheap runabout just in case.
For many Motability will not be worry free motoring but worrying motoring, very worrying motoring.

[CTCELT88]

As far as I can see, very few non wheelchair users will qualify for the enhanced rate. If you can walk up to 50m but no more you score 8 points. The overwhelming number of non wheelchair would have to answer yes to this statement. The key words being "UP TO". And the missing key words, fatigue, pain, exhaustion etc...
If you can walk a few steps, no more car.
On a seperate issue I believe if someone takes a 3 year lease and loses DLA to standard PIP they should be able to keep the car the full 3 years and pay the difference. If motability require, pay a couple of months in advance so they can repossess without being out of pocket if you miss a payment.
As it stands if you dont get PIP enhanced, after 4 weeks you lose the car even if you appeal and win. A lot of people must be frankly terrified of what might happen and use their DLA to get a cheap runabout just in case.
For many Motability will not be worry free motoring but worrying motoring, very worrying motoring.That will be made more difficult if you require adaptations, I currently do. It would be interesting what Motability's view on this will be, surley they must be concerned at the possibility of losing over 120,000 customers? Something has to be done to still enable people on PIP standard to still qualify for Motobility, otherwise the scheme will die eventually.

[beau]

I wonder how I would stand for enhanced rate? I use a triwalker but still walk like a drunkard and even fall regularly whilst using it. I can walk 50 metres but extremely slowly with numerous rests because the effort it takes to walk gives me angina.
I am not allowed to drive anymore so a car doesn't come into it. I use my mobility allowance for taxis so that I can have a life.

I suspect that I also would not be awarded the enhanced rate.

[CTCELT88]

I wonder how I would stand for enhanced rate? I use a triwalker but still walk like a drunkard and even fall regularly whilst using it. I can walk 50 metres but extremely slowly with numerous rests because the effort it takes to walk gives me angina.
I am not allowed to drive anymore so a car doesn't come into it. I use my mobility allowance for taxis so that I can have a life.

I suspect that I also would not be awarded the enhanced rate.Unfortuntely you may be right. It looks like only wheelchair bound people will get the enhanced rate. People who can walk slightly or for a certain length of time probably wont qualify for enhanced rate, only standard. I am in that catergory.

[beau]

It seems as though they are not looking at all scenarios. The criteria seems rigid with not enough consideration to those who cannot tick the right boxes but still have severe problems. No disability is the same and we do not all fit into their boxes.