Speeding Ticket

[tinker]

We've received notice of intended prosecution for doing 35mph in a 30 limit.
Now we don't knoe who was behind the wheel at the time as the notice was not clear whereabouts in the village the mobile speed-trap was so the police kindly sent me a photo and sure enough it shows the car doing 34.7mph but we cannot see the driver clearly or really identify where it took place. that is important as both my wife and I used the car that morning wy wife poped to the shops and I went to hospital. One way to the shop and the other way to the Hospital, I phoned up for clarification but the only hard fact is that one of us broke the law.
fair enough I said 'as my wife already has 3 points for a similar offense (36mph) I'll give my details.
The guy said he didn't care who did it as long as the details are received within 7 days.
It occures to me though that an MP & his wife are being prosecuted at this very time.:confused:

[Lighttouch]

Just for your reference you will get a ticket for a speeding offence if you're doing 10% over the speed limit plus 2 mph. So the allowance in your 30 mph area is 30 plus 3 plus 2 - A max of 35 mph after which you'll get a ticket (that's what I was told by a policeman so you're very unlucky). In the old days a bobby would pull you over and you could charm your way of being given a ticket - the good old days! lol

[warkman]

Just for your reference you will get a ticket for a speeding offence if you're doing 10% over the speed limit plus 2 mph. So the allowance in your 30 mph area is 30 plus 3 plus 2 - A max of 35 mph after which you'll get a ticket (that's what I was told by a policeman so you're very unlucky). In the old days a bobby would pull you over and you could charm your way of being given a ticket - the good old days! lol

Sorry, as a Magistrate that is untrue. The offence is speeding in excess of the posted speed limit that can be 31MPH in a 30MPH, in fcat in our area, between 30 and 35 MPH you can either take the points and the £60 finbe, or take a speeding class (One every three years ) for £60
Speedometers are deliberatly calibrateed lower than the actual speed shown, for a variety of reasons including wear on tyres etc, Also, it is an offence not to provide details of the driver at the time and it is up to you to keep an accurate record of who was driving. To claim for points reasons it was somone else is an offence and can come back to haunt you and possibly lose your Mobility car as well as a fine and points on your licence and the other persons as well for ading in the offence.

[Stepheninleeds]

After what has been said I would challenge this, not on the grounds it was not you ro your wife, but the fact you cannot say who it was. Say you are willing to accept this, but who's details do you give? Make sure it is legal, & in writing, then if there is any comeback you can show you did the right thing.

The difference between you & your wife, & the MP & his wife is that it is alleged he lied intentionally, & that she did too.

[terryo2]

We've received notice of intended prosecution for doing 35mph in a 30 limit.
Now we don't knoe who was behind the wheel at the time as the notice was not clear whereabouts in the village the mobile speed-trap was so the police kindly sent me a photo and sure enough it shows the car doing 34.7mph but we cannot see the driver clearly or really identify where it took place. that is important as both my wife and I used the car that morning wy wife poped to the shops and I went to hospital. One way to the shop and the other way to the Hospital, I phoned up for clarification but the only hard fact is that one of us broke the law.
fair enough I said 'as my wife already has 3 points for a similar offense (36mph) I'll give my details.
The guy said he didn't care who did it as long as the details are received within 7 days.
It occures to me though that an MP & his wife are being prosecuted at this very time.:confused:

Have a good look through this link it may help you understand what you are up against and clear up some of your confusion,

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5

good luck,

T.

[Lighttouch]

I've tried the calculator and it says you'll still get fined going 1mph over the speed limit which is rubbish.

Let's put it this way - as I was told by a policeman what margins are allowed as I outlined above. I've actually put it to the test be doing slightly more than the speed limit and creeping past a police car! They never bothered to pull me over to give me a penalty charge.

[Stepheninleeds]

I know one thing, it often depends on the police officer, their instructions at the time, & the agreed plans for that venue at that time. I am not sure about cameras.

[warkman]

I've tried the calculator and it says you'll still get fined going 1mph over the speed limit which is rubbish.

Let's put it this way - as I was told by a policeman what margins are allowed as I outlined above. I've actually put it to the test be doing slightly more than the speed limit and creeping past a police car! They never bothered to pull me over to give me a penalty charge.

Lighttouch,
As I have explained, its not rubbish whatsoever, the law is quite specific and laid down in statute. in this case 30MPH is the MAXIMUM, not a maybe.
As for creeping past the poilice, all speedometers are calibrated low and if you think you are doing 30MPH or just above you actual posted speed will be lower, hence the lack of interest.

[sambo-79]

Shouldn't we being doing just under the sped limit then we would never have to worry about breaking the law and getting tickets!!!

[Stepheninleeds]

Good point Sam. In may cases the speed limit is not wise, or safe.

[tinker]

I have no problem with the fact that the car was exceeding the 30mph limit & that the fine is valid.
However as we're not certain who was behind the wheel at that exact time and the fact that my wife was given 3 points a couple of years ago under similar circumstances I told them I'll 'take the rap' so to speak.
They said they don't mind as long as it's paid. Why then are they taking Chris Hume? & his wife to court?

[warkman]

I have no problem with the fact that the car was exceeding the 30mph limit & that the fine is valid.
However as we're not certain who was behind the wheel at that exact time and the fact that my wife was given 3 points a couple of years ago under similar circumstances I told them I'll 'take the rap' so to speak.
They said they don't mind as long as it's paid. Why then are they taking Chris Hume? & his wife to court?

Because he is not understanding the law, or is just plain bad at his job.

In accordance with Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, the "person keeping the vehicle" is obliged to supply the identity of the driver or any other person can be asked to give information if it is "in his power to give and may lead to the identification of the driver". In reality, a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) will normally be served on the registered keeper whose details are supplied by the DVLA. If the keeper then identifies another person as either the driver or having the information to supply the driver's identity, that obligation can be passed to that individual

Your legal obligation is to identify the driver, the assumption being that you know who was driving the vehicle at all times. If you cannot be sure, then the Police have the option to prosecute for failing to identify the driver. If there is a genuine reason why you cannot provide this information (and you may have an entirely justifiable explanation), then you should advise the Police accordingly. If there has been no attempt on your part to with–hold information deliberately or negligently, you may have a defence. However, such circumstances are rare and it would be prudent to seek legal advice before returning the Notice of Intended Prosecution.

If you are still unable to provide information to the Police, you should expect to end up in Court as the Police are now very likely to prosecute for failing to identify the driver and whilst they will say that there is no justified defence, the Courts have not always agreed. Before declaring that you cannot identify the driver, ask to see the Police photos, which whilst used by the prosecution to identify the vehicle only, it may actually assist you in identifying the driver.

[Stepheninleeds]

Actually, they would have to provide you with the time this happened, then you would be obliged to tell them who was driving the car.

[warkman]

Actually, they would have to provide you with the time this happened, then you would be obliged to tell them who was driving the car.

That will be on the Notice of Intended Prosecution

[terryo2]

I have no problem with the fact that the car was exceeding the 30mph limit & that the fine is valid.
However as we're not certain who was behind the wheel at that exact time and the fact that my wife was given 3 points a couple of years ago under similar circumstances I told them I'll 'take the rap' so to speak.
They said they don't mind as long as it's paid. Why then are they taking Chris Hume? & his wife to court?

If you do not reply to the NIP within 28 day's giving the req'd info. ie. the driver detail,s you will leave yourself wide open to a fail to furnish charge carring six points and a fine of upto £1000,

Good luck,

T.

[Stepheninleeds]

You could be right Warkman. I am far from an expert on this as I do no drive. I know you can, if you say there is a conflict as to who was driving, ask for details to clarify.

[Lighttouch]

Lighttouch,
As I have explained, its not rubbish whatsoever, the law is quite specific and laid down in statute. in this case 30MPH is the MAXIMUM, not a maybe.
As for creeping past the poilice, all speedometers are calibrated low and if you think you are doing 30MPH or just above you actual posted speed will be lower, hence the lack of interest.

Well on Sunday I had a nice drive out to North Waes via the M56 and A55. Saw friends who are there for a short break and after a nice evening drove home about 11.30pm Only three other cars were on the road for the first 40 miles - two were police cars.

I was doing over 70 mph when the first police car overtook at considerable speed. Ten minutes later I spotted blue lights flashing and another police car sped past and didn't bother about my 75mph.

I guess they had other more pressing issues to attend too. Although I couldn't help thinking that the first police car was out having a bit of fun - obviously practicing his chasing skills at 100mph plus as the road was empty.

I think there are a few rules around. The magistrates rules, speed camera rules and the police rules which are very flexible depending on how good a day they've had.

[warkman]

Well on Sunday I had a nice drive out to North Waes via the M56 and A55. Saw friends who are there for a short break and after a nice evening drove home about 11.30pm Only three other cars were on the road for the first 40 miles - two were police cars.

I was doing over 70 mph when the first police car overtook at considerable speed. Ten minutes later I spotted blue lights flashing and another police car sped past and didn't bother about my 75mph.

I guess they had other more pressing issues to attend too. Although I couldn't help thinking that the first police car was out having a bit of fun - obviously practicing his chasing skills at 100mph plus as the road was empty.

I think there are a few rules around. The magistrates rules, speed camera rules and the police rules which are very flexible depending on how good a day they've had.

The bigger question is why were YOU exceeding the speed limit when you know the absolute maximum speed limit in this country is 70MPH.
As you say, the raod was clear and there is no reason whatsoever to exceed the speed limit.

[Lighttouch]

True. I reckon many drivers get pinched for speeding when there's nothing on the road - especially via speed cameras. After a while 70mph seems slow and 85mph doesn't feel fast. It's a shame we don't have German autobahns here. LOL

Do not try this at home
http://www.gettingaroundgermany.info/autobahn.shtml

[paul1234]

True. I reckon many drivers get pinched for speeding when there's nothing on the road - especially via speed cameras. After a while 70mph seems slow and 85mph doesn't feel fast. It's a shame we don't have German autobahns here. LOL

Do not try this at home
http://www.gettingaroundgermany.info/autobahn.shtml

This is why I always go for cruise control, it stops the speed creeping up.

[tinker]

Just to clarify my situation, I have the police photo but it does not make clear which side of the cross roads it took place.
They cannot tell us which side it was which is important as if it was one side it was my wife if the other it was me. I went out directly after my wife drove us home, we live 1 min from the junction who was at the wheel.
I explained this and they seem OK with me accepting the blame as my wife already has 3 points.

[Paul]

I'd just stick with that. Nothing more you can do really.

[Stepheninleeds]

I would get it in writing, & make it legal with a solicitor, I really would. That way you are covered then, both of you are.

[terryo2]

Just to clarify my situation, I have the police photo but it does not make clear which side of the cross roads it took place.
They cannot tell us which side it was which is important as if it was one side it was my wife if the other it was me. I went out directly after my wife drove us home, we live 1 min from the junction who was at the wheel.
I explained this and they seem OK with me accepting the blame as my wife already has 3 points.


tinker, the person you are dealing with either is unfamiliar with the law or just incompetent, the NIP/s172 is a legal doc. if you return it with the incorrect details you may find yourself in the same boat as Mr Hume, only trying to help you with this, Walkman has pointed this out in some detail and I have provided a link where you can get all the help you need with this matter.

If the photo you have is from a camera van it will be a still from a video, make an appointment to view the video, if the photo is from a fixed camera post it on here (remove Reg. No and any personal i.d) and let me have the location I will try to tell you which side of the cross road it took place.

If you choose to go your way with this I wish you the best of luck,

T.

[barbiejane]

IMHO you cant win against the law .If it's unclear who was driving why not who ever has the least points on their licence take the points because one way or another one of you is going to have to.

[tinker]

Well I filled in the form stating that we were not 100% certain who was driving but I'll say it's me as my wife already had 3 points, so we'll see what happens.
Mind you we've just realised that her points were over 4 years ago so I don't think they still apply.
Funnily enough I saw the 'van' in the village yesterday so stopped and asked him if he knew which location is ***** South, it turns out it could be one of 4 whereas North is only 1 location so none the wiser.

[Stepheninleeds]

What a mess really. You try to be honest & they cannot help you. I still suggest legal advice, just to make sure you are covered.

[davewhit]

Lighttouch,
As I have explained, its not rubbish whatsoever, the law is quite specific and laid down in statute. in this case 30MPH is the MAXIMUM, not a maybe.
As for creeping past the poilice, all speedometers are calibrated low and if you think you are doing 30MPH or just above you actual posted speed will be lower, hence the lack of interest.

rubbish by law they have to be correct, and they allow a percentage over the limit for ware and tare
if we where to take your post as correct you will be saying next breath tests low to allow for people cant take there drink the same

by the way

You are entitled to see the calibration certificate for a speed camera. This should identify the make, model and serial number for the camera and prove that it has been calibrated within 12 months of the alleged offence. It may be that the Police refuse to disclose this information before a Summons has been issued and strictly speaking, there is no obligation for them to assist before then. However, most Police forces will provide information upon request.
ex Magistrate

agree with 31 is against law in 30 zone in fact you could be done doing 20 if conditions made speed dangerous

[davewhit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17365818

[tinker]

Well the outcome of this is that I have been offered a Speed Awareness Course for £85 if I don't want the points and £60 fine.
This is despite me writing all over the form in black ink that we don't know for sure who was driving but as my wife has 3 points I'll accept the blame.
I'll go on the course assuming they can cope with disabled as I heard on the radio that insurance policies add 20% to the policy if you have points and thinking forward in time when and if Motability stops I'll have to sort out my own policy.