Plans for 11 thousand esa medicals per week?

[saintjanet]

I read on another site and i think, also on the dwp site, that they intend to be assessing eleven thousand people, per week, for esa when they reach "fever pitch"

They will be building up to this figure, many people will be assessed, on the information they already hold, intemperate this as you wish:confused:

The thing is if they are going to be assessing many people, by giving them a medical, i can't see how they will ever keep to their intended time table, many years ago when my husband had his first ib50 and was sent for a medical, the medical center was so full we had to wait in the corridor, people were in and out on a regular basis.

Last week at his medical there was no one in when we arrived and people were being turned away, well one was! because one of the two doctors on duty was ill.2 people arrived while we were there, one for another type of medical. and one person was with the doctor already.

The point is how will they cope with the normal medicals, transfers, appeals etc, i think they are being very optimistic with their plans.

[andypandy]

do you have a link for this story janet ?

[saintjanet]

I THINK IT WAS ON THE dwp's own site, or yougov, not sure but i think, i just looked at the plans for transfer to esa and they gave details, sorry i took so long to reply, JAN (keep forgetting when i post on this forum!!}

[treborc]

Rumour has it people on indefinite payments are to be the main target first, because they get the highest payments of IB and DLA.

I've no doubt this is all out cutting the cost, today the Tories say they think 3 out of four people can work, they are not saying they are not disabled, but they can do something.

They say they need to save 16 billion a year, out of £135 billion.

So far in Scotland where the trial is being carried out it has a mixed picture, with nearly everyone failing the tests, but most are winning the appeals. what a mess.

[saintjanet]

Rumour is often what it is, the government have plenty to say and many think some of it is propaganda, i have said this before and i do not pretend to be an expert, but my own MP had to contact JCP to "find out" their intentions.

I did read today and i'm ashamed to say, i can not remember where, that a labour MP has asked for the one year rule to be increased to 2 years, which would suggest that many things are still being discussed, and not yet set in stone.

Regarding 16 billion savings out of 135 billion, that is just less than 8.5% saving, unless i am reading your figures wrong, 3 out of 4 working or not receiving benefits more likley, would give 75% saving, excuse the pun but it does not add up , at least not when i passed A level maths:), and is indeed a mess.

[belvederebabe]

Hi Jan I also saw the bit about the labour MP that wants to change it to 2 years...I also saw somewhere that there were 5.5 million unemployed and just under 600,00 jobs available....and that is before the so called mass transfer...I can't remember where I saw it either I also found the correct figures on the DWP site for the trials in Aberdeen and Burnley but can't find that either lol....so you are not alone and to top it all I just typed all this out once and deleted it all.......... accidently !!!!

Also may I add apart from not being able to keep up with all these medicals....you mentioned earlier in the thread, I read that they are going to keep on doing them as often as every 6 months, some people as soon as 2 weeks after the last medical ...surely the cost of all these so called medicals is going to cost more than paying the benefits themselves.........I am sure these staff doing all these medicals don't come cheap...

[belvederebabe]

The provisional figures show that we have made 1347 decisions of which:

399 have been found fit for work (29.6%)
422 are in the support group for Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) – this means they will receive unconditional support (31.3%)
526 are in the Work Related Activity of ESA – this means with the right help and support they can start the journey back to work (39%)

these were the true figures ......

[andypandy]

Its ridiculous anyway because you can be on DLA and still work, so where would they be saving money there ?

[saintjanet]

Propaganda, again sue. If they plan even more medicals, why are they sooooooooooo far behind now?, talk is cheap , medicals are not.My GP used to do them.


andypandy, you are right.

Anyone interested, the figures above do not add up regarding the savings they want, quoted by treborc.

One thing i don't get is, the Government have been trying to take people off benefits for many years, so why, are there so many, more than ever, if you believe them, still claiming and receiving them? none of it makes sense to me, if i was young enough i would take another degree ...... in politics!.;)

Regards, Jan

LAST THING,sadly you only hear the bad news.There may be some good:)sometime!

[belvederebabe]

I agree with you totally Jan, the government have been trying to do away with Welfare for years, and I did see a program once that, I think it was Winston Churchill never wanted the National Health Service.....that's the conservatives for you.....This deficit has given them the perfect excuse do do everything they always wanted....I know Labour started all this but no way would they have been quite so cruel.

However I have always thought the need for a new political Party.....so you would get my vote.....call it the honesty party lol xxxx

[andypandy]

Hi Jan

Its never too late, perhaps you should go for that degree !

After the things I am going through lately I am thinking perhaps a degree in law would come in handy !

Kind regards to you all xxx

[belvederebabe]

Good for you Andypandy kind regards to you to xxx

[the jem]

Hi saintjanet - interesting forum. What nobody has come up with is that this provides employment for a huge number of doctors, lawyers in a time of recession - providing employment for the more advantaged members of society. A nurse or care worker could do the computerised medical a teacher could decide who should go forward. Or even a person suitably supported on job seekers allowance or esa or volunteer oranisation workers. why should the more advantaged be paid to stand in judgment of the less advantaged and how can they? their world is so different? ********* basically it is a way of providing work for their own ******** they would be better fitted to use it to provide work for people who cannot find it and want it and provide the training for them to do it for themselves. But that would not cost the state enough and would not fund their own enough.

[belvederebabe]

A very interesting and good point xx

[saintjanet]

Jem, very sound logic you have applied there. However some of the ATOS personnel, carrying out medicals are no longer doctors, and this is a bone of contention with many claimants, who feel that they should be! some still are and the legal side must be flourishing, due to all the appeals, so your point is valid.


I was reading today that the average wage for a man is £28,270, and that is nothing near the money earned by a doctor or lawyer, it's a pity they did not mention the average incapacity/ esa payment of all the people the government say are languishing on benefits.My husband could have easily earned this amount of money, had he been able to continue working, instead he receives a fraction of it.

I have no doubt that as the poor become poorer, that the more advantaged, standing in judgment, as you say, will be better off.

Regards, Jan

[belvederebabe]

I agree Jan... my husbands pension is half that... and that is what we will be expected to live on....people on some means tested benefits get more than that when you take into account the lack of council tax, housing benefit and free dental care and other bits.....xxxx

[saintjanet]

Hi sue, i have to say though that all these averages are not realistic, they take my salary add the teachers next door, the plumber up the road and Elton john's and reach an average salary of 5 million a year!!

[muffie02]

just a thought - now if we could come up with a way to interest the "blame to claim" lawyer firms ( no win no fee ) in these appeals ...........

can just see it now " disabled ? been screwed over by ATOS or the DWP ?? - well contact disability lawyers for -U - WE ARE REAL LAWYERS - AND YOU WILL GET 100% OF THE COMPENSATION - so been told you are not disabled - or told you are "fit to work " ? - contact us today " - etc etc

could start a whole now industry ................................ yea some hope - but ... i bet there is a lawyer looking at how to make a bob out of all this somewhere

[the jem]

could start a whole now industry ................................ yea some hope - but ... i bet there is a lawyer looking at how to make a bob out of all this somewhere

Muffie02 Lawyers already are making money out if. The other point which I felt after reading these comments is that perhaps the whole assessment thing they ought to put into the people who are in the work related activity groups to devise a check list for computerised medicals. This would give a bit of commonsense to the questionaires and the system.

[the jem]

talking about averages and things a big problem is that these people at the top cannot understand how much £60 is to us. To them it is one minutes wage to us it is a weeks income. So to cut benefit by £15 they are taking away a quarter of the weekly income. Which if it was the income of say a doctor it would be the equivelent if they were earning £6000 per week taking away £1500 from them. AND not giving them a bonus for doing flu jabs or something.

[the jem]

At present I do not feel well enough to be able to cope with the work related activity groups and would like to be left alone to sort out my fears about surgery, putting my affairs in order and getting myself as fit as possible for the operation. If I was given the choice of being in the support group with no extra money with a view that I will after the operation and recovery time go into the work related activity group until I sort out work, I would take it. Simply because I need space - not challenges and these are challenges that I am just not well enough to take on. So I think there should be an elective choice, for a period of recovery time, acceptance. Because when suddenly finding yourself out of work you need time to accept this - when I had my medical it was all new to me and I had not accepted my situation so I was telling them about when I was much much fitter than then. The tribunal I was more able to say it as it was but still I have not accepted things to be able to explain details properly because they are part of my life. I am sure many many people find the same.

[saintjanet]

talking about averages and things a big problem is that these people at the top cannot understand how much £60 is to us. To them it is one minutes wage to us it is a weeks income. So to cut benefit by £15 they are taking away a quarter of the weekly income. Which if it was the income of say a doctor it would be the equivelent if they were earning £6000 per week taking away £1500 from them. AND not giving them a bonus for doing flu jabs or something.Another thing to bear in mind is that after 12 months, unless in the support group, people with working partners could loose ALL their benefit.

[treborc]

The simple fact is the government believes we have 800,000 people with a severe disablity, go back to before Thatcher we had 750,000, many of us who remember this saw IB go up as Thatcher and Blair used IB to lower the unemployment levels, it shot up to about 1.5 million.

Now Tony Blair believed that many people on IB were in fact the people Thatcher put onto benefits, his little mind did not see in fact medical science for example had shown a million people with serious mental health issues, the rise in a new illness CFS/ME, in my day this was known by the media as the yuppie Flu, rich people wanting to take a few days off, it was only when people started to die from this, illness people except the sun of course called it Yuppie flu.

But then the Americans got into the act writing an open letter to the EU warning if we carried on with welfare it would ruin us, what was happening people in America demanded the same payments.

So what we have to remember with all the facts and figure around here, so long as we have free open appeals, then we have a strong chance of keeping our benefits until of course the Tories or Labour decide we are getting to much.

[saintjanet]

treborc, Much of what you say is true of course, but for the people placed in the work related activity group of esa, the 12 month rule is a very worrying aspect.There are many stories about people being placed in this group who really should be exempt.When the transfers from ib begin, the exempt may also be tested for esa.The appeals process is also being "looked at" and the condems would like to make it harder to appeal in future.

It is fair to say that we only hear the bad news, people who are treated well by the system often never post this information. i still think that some people will end up with nothing after 12 months, if they have working partners, not earning a great deal either. Sorry to keep repeating this.

[belvederebabe]

treborc, Much of what you say is true of course, but for the people placed in the work related activity group of esa, the 12 month rule is a very worrying aspect.There are many stories about people being placed in this group who really should be exempt.When the transfers from ib begin, the exempt may also be tested for esa.The appeals process is also being "looked at" and the condems would like to make it harder to appeal in future.

It is fair to say that we only hear the bad news, people who are treated well by the system often never post this information. i still think that some people will end up with nothing after 12 months, if they have working partners, not earning a great deal either. Sorry to keep repeating this.

You repeat it all you like Jan......people who are worried about losing a few pounds just don't seem to realise what it will for those of us who will have NOT A PENNY TO OUR NAME......I have not savings as such. my husband can't afford to pay the bills that I pay as well as the mortgage and also subsidize my dental treatment, glasses, underwear socks, shoes, let alone I dare to want a new top, as I can afford now, I feel I can help out with the bills and also pay for my own upkeep, and even treat my self once in a while... I have a bit of self respect... but without anything I might as well sit in the corner and do nothing... The reason I am able to be on here now is my little piece of independence gives me the money for option one broadband .... the cheapest. he won't be able to afford that we don't have sky TV like some people I know on means tested money, I am not say all of them have but I know some, with kids who have a lot more than we do and that is now..let alone when I lose my money...I am still smoking some ciggerets I bought back from my first holiday abroad in 25 years last may and that is only because my friends who had an apartment kept begging us to use it and my mum paid for our fares...Ones those ciggerets are gone thats it, I will not be able to afford to smoke any more, not a bad thing but when you have anxiety, a ciggeret is better than a bottle of meths lol...

I consider my self to be lucky as we have a tiny morgage but what of those poor younger people who all this is happening to with larger morgages...do deserve to lose their homes because the husband struggling on a lowish wage suddenly loses his partners chance to help out a little bit ...NO...Sorry am on my soap box now....but it makes me sooooo angry when I hear some of the things I hear people moaning about ( not on here lol ) I mean in my life.... and have no idea how this going to effect people...

Lets just say, OK Sue give it a try, try and get a little part time job, which I know I would not be able to keep let alone cope with...who is going to give me one, when we have as many medical problems as some of us have... If you are in a wheel chair your brain still works. (( the governments view)) but you have to be able to work efficiently, no mistakes, work at speed.. not forget to do half the things you are meant to do NOT spend half an hour crying in the toilet cos you have done something wrong AGAIN...it is bad enough when my husband keeps picking me up on things I forget to do let alone a stranger, not to mention the loss of money due to my wastage, whoops thats wrong better chuck it in the bin !!! whoops sorry MR boss I have broken your £ 25,000 thingy bob cos I forgot to do this first, sorry Mrs Davis I did not mean to nearly give you third degree burns by passing you a boiling hot tray that had been sitting on a switched on hob ring ...:o yes believe it not I did his to my husband ....get the picture :D .this is just my example, and what I am like at home...I can't see it working in a work place can you ....:confused: I am sure there are many more out there who are the same as me...you seem normal to the outside, you can get by in every day life but strangers don't love you and put up with things your partner will on a daily basis...and that is just the physical the emotional side in another story, I can just see the interview now when they say why I have not worked all this time... I can't risk not telling them as epilepsy is not something you are allowed to lie about especially.

At least people on mean tested money will not have to worry about finding some mug to employ them, and trying to hold down a job when they feel ill all the time or can't cope, they will still be provided for... Please means tested people don't think I am picking on you just trying to say it how it is for those of us who stand to lose the lot :( and have no come back what so ever.....

[chris1011981]

i agree with belvederebabe in what she says in this day and age people just get by on benefits bills,food,warmth the 3 main things in life. i dont have sky tv i cant afford it at 56 pounds a month. i have broadband which i consider to be a luxury lol :) hey if u cant treat yourself to one thing whats the point, i read something on the internet on a news site today that while all this is going on the goverment regulary support afghanistan and iraq and the biggest country they support is india (theres 12 countries in the list) they want to slash some of it but it says when they do slash some of the cash they give away itll still be more than before they cut it. my point is why not look after our own people 1st instead of promoting wars and giving to other countries and the needy, why not give to the needy (ie disabled and not cut there benefits. im not mr intelligent but i reckon i could do a damn site better job than these greedy politicians.

[treborc]

OK so you have told me how hard it is to live, does anyone think here I'm getting more then you, because I get the same as you lot, I've never had a holiday at all not even in the UK. I do not have expensive TV's or I do not have anything which you might call luxury.

So India and Pakistan and Africa are getting Aid, so what if we did not give Aid to these countries do you think labour or the Tories would give it to us.

fact labour thinks that everyone can work, hence they brought in the new medicals, the Tories agree and Labour have said they will back the Tories on Welfare reforms.


OK what are we going to do.

Anyone on here tried to answer the questions on the new WCA, if you get 15 points then your OK, sadly this WCA is not the old PCA.

What about the forms we will be getting over the next few months how do we deal with this, how many will be filling the forms in themselves, how many will be asking somebody with knowledge like the CAB.

OK your now off to the new medical test call it what you like.... You have a spotty nerd who gets the min wage using a computer, your answers will decide if you get the right grouping within the WCA.

Anyone even tried the new tests yet..


One of the worse answers people give to the questions is not to know what your going to say and end up saying " on a Good day"


The day of just thinking or praying that the government is going to change are long gone this is the new era .

If you lose the new test what do you do, how do you fight it this is the reality we must now look at the appeals procedures

[belvederebabe]

I am not sure what you are trying to say trevorc.....I am not saying how I live, or what I do or don't have as such, what I am saying is we all are going to be effected by this...HOWEVER what some of us are trying to get over to you is ... THE ONE YEAR RULE IS NOT RIGHT...why are we being punished the most and having our independence taken away.....just because our partners have worked....

THIS SO CALLED WELFARE REFORM WAS SUPPOSED TO MAKE WORK PAY......I don't care who bought it in it was THIS PARTY that bought that in...

If you get 15 points you will be OK...((( RUBBISH))) I did the test and got 83 points on line, that does not mean I or anyone else will get into the support group, chances are we will get into the Work Group... if you are on means tested ESA and are not able to get a job or keep a job, you will continue to be looked after no matter what...and that is RIGHT, However if you have a partner who could be earning less than those on means tested ESA or income support, that partner is expected to support that person until they " find" work again or retire. all we will get is one year to do this..then WE lose the lot.. I was trying to give a humorous but true account of how hard it will be for us to find work.

THIS is not a competition on who get more than the other... what we are saying is we should be treated as fairly as people on Means Tested ESA.....Everyone should get a basic amount, why should people with partners that are working lose what they paid national insurance for, if people need added things like housing benefit those should be means tested as they need the extra support...

I am not saying the reforms are wrong, I support a lot of them, what I am complaining about is that they are not being done fairly...and what stjanet trying to say....is people are being placed into the work group when they can clearly not work or get a job and on contribution esa you lose the lot... also that they are trying to do away with the appeals and make it harder to get them, and people are winning the appeals, and getting another medical 2 or three months along the line and being told they got nil points again... and dropping dead or hanging themselves because they just can't take it any more or their hearts give up...

Appeals mean nothing with this lot they want welfare gone ....and the next thing they will do it get rid of the NHS.. it has all ready begun.

[chris1011981]

the one year rule is a crazy idea whoever thought of that well done NOT. fair play if your temporarily ill and you envision yourself goin back to work eventually then good. but for those will cerebal palsy, spina bifida, downs synrome etc its crazy because if your born like you are how do you change ? its not as if one day u make a wish and say tomorow im going to be better :) sorry it dosent work like that. i and im sure belverderebabe and saint janet amongst others would love a job thats well paying, but what we are saying is once u get put into that work group or you get the one year rule then you stand to lose a lot in terms of life because if people are struggling now then it wont get any better.

[treborc]

Thats life as they say, one year two years, lets be honest all this was put in place by Tony Blair and brown, to save money, to ensure the vast majority of people end up on JSA.

whether we all get benefits or are sent back to work watch this space.

[belvederebabe]

The one year rule was bought in at the last budget...BY the Libcoms.. it has sweet FA to do with the reforms..though It might have something to do with EU law and people going back home and still being able to get our benefits. They can take it away from people in the future if they want, but lower their nat ins stamps so they can afford to pay into a critical illness insurance instead....but do not take it away from those already getting it and already ill with no chance of getting insurance... one year two years you say... I say Until we are able to find a suitable job, with a clause to say we are protected for a certain amount of time if we are not able to keep it...

Chris agree with you totally.. stjanet is the the worker her husband used to have a very good job before he became ill and she is the one who will have to pay for everything....

So those of you with well paid jobs and a stay at home wives.....who have your income and nice house now, it could be you who falls ill tomorrow...and your wife with no professional qualifications will have to support you ....Those who moan now beware...for for tomorrow it could be YOU..

No problem if you have nothing and have a couple of kids though and have never worked in your life ...(( those who never intended to work I mean not genuine people.)) the people who the welfare reforms were supposed to get back to work...they still get their mean tested money... Those are the people who need to be made to get off benefits, not the genuine sick people, who through no fault of their own were born sick, disabled, or fell ill after many years at work..

I would love to work again, and earn a decent wage..not big but decent... but apart from all the obstacles, and reluctance to employ disabled people... THERE ARE NO JOBS....a few hundred thousand jobs, for the millions unemployed and that is before they chuck all the sick and disabled onto the market.... sorry no I do not agree with the one year ESA rule and never never will.......

I will just have to find another way of making money :rolleyes:

[saintjanet]

Sue, I REALLY don't think i can add anything else to the comments you and chris have made, one thing i have mentioned before and feel the need to say again, is the fact that my husband will never be able to work again, regardless of points, the dwp, the government, atos, or anyone else who becomes involved, so having said that, i don't think there is much more to say about him, except if and when he is transferred, be it to the work group or to manchester united, i will have to keep him, hopefully, as he has just had a review, he will be at least 63 plus when, or if it happens.

I was thinking last night about his dad, who worked all his life, and also did a part time job as well for 36 years!! he was working 60 hours a week, paid his tax and national insurance, never had a penny in benefits, retired and received his state pension for 2 years before he died of cancer.This is how you can end up after doing the right thing, he thought he was lucky to have been in work for so long, i'm not so sure he was!!:(

Come to think about it the work bit could be my story too, i just hope i do not become ill or disabled as my 40 years plus in work will count for little with this lot,:mad:

Regards Jan xx

[saintjanet]

There was one more point i forgot to add, IF my husband was able to work my family would give him a job, i won't go into detail, but it shows, that there being few jobs or millions makes no difference to his situation, regardless of government views.Jan

[belvederebabe]

Hi Jan how are you ..I was wondering how you were...

I get so frustrated when the words don't come out right, and when people cannot see what I am trying to say...some people just can't see how unfair the 12 month rule is..and how people like my sister look down on people who can't work, she is one of those blinded people who cannot see how it is and had read too much propaganda.. She believes everyone can do something and why should she have to work...SHE IS OFF abroad in the spring for 6 months to do nothing...

Do you by any chance have facebook...I am trying to think of a way I can give you my e-mail...xxxx

[saintjanet]

Hi Sue, not too bad thanks, i thought you explained your thoughts very well,in your other posts, i gave up on one forum, the money one as every post made about benefits turned into a, "who can insult who the most" as for facebook ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! sorry i am drifting off topic again.Jan xx

[belvederebabe]

Thanks Jan I appreciate that, I sometimes worry by trying to get my point across I am offending some people on means tested benefits,which is not my aim at all... the point I am trying to get across is that the people on contributory ESA stand to lose the most as they could end up worse off than those who are not, not all but some.

We all know who they are, the people who have taken advantage by saying they are disabled as a way of making money the one that have been in the news defrauding the system and taken advantage of the the system. The organised gangs like the ones that have been mentioned on the forum, only the other day a saw of a person using dead peoples identities and claiming that over 500 people lived at the same flat. The girls that left school and got pregnant just so they will not have to work...the people who have never worked, have never had any intention of working and thinking that the tax payers owe them a living. Those people have taken advantage to the extent all disabled people, and single mothers have been given the label of scroungers. Disabled people are scared to be seen smiling or trying to enjoy life in case someone thinks they are one of those types. My point is those people know how to work the system they will still continue to get money.It is the genuine people that are losing out because of those people and the hate campaigns in the press to make people hate all benefit claimers. I count my self lucky that I have more than some and a roof over my head and a caring husband but I hate to see people who, like you and my husband who are having to work harder to keep ill partners while those people will continue to milk the system...I am sorry but I hate seeing genuine people suffer because of those type of people. xxxx

PS yes I know the comments you mean which is why I am trying so hard to get my point over without offending people even if it does take me an hour or two or corrections to get my point across in the fairest way I can....: perhaps I could get a job where I could lie all day on my laptop writng one peice for a news paper :D lol xxxx

[saintjanet]

SUE, Please don't worry too much, i really do think that much of what is happening IS scare tactics, to put off new claimants from even trying to get benefits of any kind.

Think of it this way, when labour were in power they planned to reduce the numbers, on every type of benefit, especially ib, over a period of years, looking at this logically it would have happened anyway, as claimants recovered from short term illness, retired, or even died, providing they made it harder for new people to receive the benefits, when they needed them. Or so they thought.

It still seems that even after all their efforts the figures remain similar, the real problem as we keep saying, is the 12 month rule, and again no one, in parliament seems concerned about it, they probably think that people with a working partner don't need benefits, as they have always stopped jsa after 12 months, and then six.I can't see how it can be implemented in the way they plan, or in the time they think,

Regards, Jan xxx Oh, please, please leave the cigs alone, that's what my father in law died of, despite having no other vices. Even though it was a real bad time, for my husband, as he was ill then, he refused another cigarette, and has never smoked since, 17 years now!! sorry, no offence intended by this, i even smoked myself many years ago, socially, i gave up when Pat P. (ELSIE TANNER) died!! xxx

[the jem]

The people who have always been on benefits with what most people say for no reason at all except not wanting to work. I believe there are very few cold heartedly doing that. I feel a very large amount of them were totally crushed during school years. Lack self-esteem and confidence. Been unable to get necessary skills to do what they would be good at. Often not able to read or write and if they can they know or thing it is not well. Often undiagnosed word blindness problems such as dyslexia. Society has let them down. People have got good jobs on the strength that these people have not - the exam system is set up and fluctuates in England that way. These people need help, support, encouragement - alot of time and patience and a chance to do something that they can do. So they can be pleased to be who they are. Others get jobs but are just so unbelievably different in there approach to solutions they loose the job in no time, these people have problems and need help to. This people who are on benefits permanently need serious help and not accusations and battery most have had that all their lives and it has crippled them. Whilst I speak in generalisations and state all naturally I do mean there are some who this does not fit but who are we to judge another category of person that we have not experienced?

[belvederebabe]

I agree to quiet a lot of what you are saying the jem, there are two sides to every story, lots of people judge people on appearance and do not now the true fact......if that is the case then I say again ....they are not the people who I am speaking of.....I am talking of those out there " the very few" they do exist, I know them. I also know of people like those you speak of. I know more than anyone what low self esteem, anxiety, depression, mood swings, and other issues can do to you it can destroy every ounce of confidence you have. As I have been trying to say, I AM SAYING the government will continue to give those people benefits , the people "they wanted to help make work pay" take off of a life of benefits while those who have worked in the past but through no thought of there own, are being chucked on the slag heap with no help after one year.

I am not a judge I am just trying to say I don't think it fair that it is one rule for one and one for others, as the chances are means tested people often have more money than people on the min wage ( Another con) other wise why are people complaining they cannot afford to come off income support etc and get a job....I worked out last night that in 1991 when I worked as a interviewer I was on £5.00 an hour plus travel time and my fares. I also did the censors around that time not the last but the one before that, also at around the same pay...in 1994 I earned £6.00 and hour working in a toning bed salon. Those wages then were not high wages...in fact both those jobs I was at the bottom of the pay scale with those companies. NOW 20 years on the min wage is £5.93....my sister is a credit controller and wages clerk.. which is considered a trained job just £8.00 and hour in London. With the amount food, petrol, electric, gas, heating oil, house prices, rents and every thing else has gone up it is time the min wage went up to a reasonable amount only then will people be able to afford to live.:mad: Some how those figures just don't seem to add up.... we are all getting poorer.

Jan Good Morning can't sleep at the moment am in bed with my lap top as was awake most of the night thinking stuff....Yes I think you are right, this government think that WE DON'T NEED ANY MONEY BECAUSE WE HAVE PARTNERS WHO WORK, or put large amounts of their pay each week in to a pension. so they will be comfortable, they went without in order to save for a house so they would not have to pay large rents as they reached middle age.....but with the min wage being as I quoted no wonder people are better off on benefits...If we had not bought our house and used my husbands lump sum from his pension to pay off most of our mortgage there is no way we could live on his money. Rent alone would be around £500-£600 a month maybe more. Years ago a man's wage was enough to keep his wife, and later wife and Children. Now women have to work they have no choice and most of that gets eaten up with child care....AS you can see I could not sleep last night and all this stuff was going round and round my head.....

Yes I promise I will pack the ciggies up, but at the moment I am going through a lot of issues and stress at the moment, which is why all this is so therapeutic for me keeps my mind occupied, and stops me thinking about other stuff, having a laptop helps as at the moment I am still in bed :D Once the ones have gone, that is it I will smoke no more ... after all how I to pay for them scotch mist :D lol xx I gave up for two years and started again due to a very stressful problem but have every intension of doing it again. Do you know I don't even like people smoking. xxxxxxxxxx

[treborc]

Anyone seen Labour new Welfare reforms came out yesterday, interesting they back the Tories new regime except they stated the limit to benefit would be two years, one year two years your still going to get your benefits stopped. labour was going on about full employment for everyone which is very interesting, because labour says and the Tories they are both in this, that 2.4 million on benefits is way to high for the country to afford, yet you will hear nothing about the 8 million disabled people on income support or those who are on JSA.

The reason of course if your on income support you will soon be transfered to the ESA, JSA.

But when was the last time anyone saw any government make 10 million jobs, 8 million people of working age who were in the main born disabled and have never worked, two million from IB and that without the 5 million people who are either unemployed or classed as economically inactive.

Thats fifteen million jobs labour are talking about.

[belvederebabe]

That is very interesting have you got a link treborc...yes these politicians are brilliant they can make disabled well again, make 8 million jobs out of a few hundred thousand, keep inflation at a record low when it is sky rocketing....Turn water in to wine, walk on water...they all think the are gods sit in their ivory towers sipping expensive wine eating expensive food with their rose tinned glasses on..brilliant on top of that they than answer a question 100 times over without actually answering the question put to them...sheer brilliant !!!

With regard to the 1 year rule becoming 2 years...it would in fact make a big difference, I still think it is wrong however, but could mean another year of independence and a chance to save a little before I have nothing. Also it might give me a bit longer for all this to go tits up and they get rid of atos, or even it gives me another year of support to find a suitable miracle job. OF Course they are out there the gods at parliament say there are..... xx please If you do have a link would love to see it ..

[the jem]

I believe minimum wage should be based and related to maximum wage as a percentage and therefore in any organisation the minimum wage cannot be lower than a certain percentage of the income of the person in the company getting the maximum income from the company ie including salary and bonus. Hence that percentage should apply in the whole of the UK the same percentage of the maximum income earner.

Perhaps the government should look at what is required to live and how much it costs just the basic standing charge - part of todays living and this should be incorporated into all basic wage. ie standing charges for utilities (which have increased considerably) council tax and mobile, internet and tv which are now a part of todays society that has become a necessity and was not a few years ago.

[treborc]

Labour backs majority of government’s welfare agenda
Labour’s new shadow work and pensions secretary has backed large sections of the coalition government’s welfare reforms, but has criticised some of its cuts to disability benefits as “not compassionate”.

In a speech to the Institute for Public Policy Research, Liam Byrne suggested there would be no radical change in direction from the former Labour government’s welfare policies.

He said he would back the coalition government when it puts in place “radical welfare reform that works”.

But he warned that the government’s welfare reforms would fail if there were not enough jobs available.

He said: “Without a faster growing economy, the government’s changes won’t push people into a job. They will push them into a corner.”

Byrne said the coalition was “failing the compassion test” with some of its reforms, including removing the mobility component of disability living allowance (DLA) from most disabled people in residential care.

He said this was not compassionate or supportive but was “a punishment for people who need our help”.

And he said that cutting housing benefit by 10 per cent for all those who have been claiming jobseeker’s allowance for a year – which will affect many disabled people denied out-of-work disability benefits – was also “not compassionate” and was a “punishment”.

But Byrne said Labour agreed with more than three-quarters of the “principled and burden-sharing welfare savings and efficiencies” the government was making next year.

He said he didn’t agree with imposing a one-year time limit on people in the work-related activity group claiming “contributory” employment and support allowance (ESA) – the replacement for incapacity benefit – because it “could hit people recovering from cancer”, although he said a two-year limit “could work”.

He also backed the need for DLA reform, although he warned that if it was “driven by a top-down cuts target” it risked denying support for “those in search of a more independent life”.

The government has imposed such a target, saying it wants to cut spending on working-age DLA – and the number of working-age claimants – by 20 per cent by 2016.

The disability poverty charity Disability Alliance (DA) welcomed Labour’s apparent move “away from the simplistic tone of office” and the “helpful” recognition that there must be “genuine work opportunities” available if welfare reform was to work.

DA added: “We believe DWP must develop, in partnership with employers, sustainable employment opportunities for disabled people rather than focus on reducing benefit levels.”

News provided by John Pring at www.disabilitynewsservice.com

[belvederebabe]

Thank you treborc ....very interesting read.

[saintjanet]

Thank you treborc ....very interesting read.Liam byrne has made many comments, since being appointed shadow sec. of state for work and pensions on 20.1.11, as is the norm. when anyone moves into this or a similar position. I would like to know more about what he intends to do and when, rather than his opinions, i think he made these comments a couple of weeks ago.

I remember yvette coopers comments when she was appointed, she gave credence to what is now taking place, only on a smaller scale, i wonder what would have happened if labour had won the election?:(