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Thread: What to do when the ATOS DR lies?

  1. #11
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    I joined a site last week for help filling out my new ESA50. What I did find was some very interesting laws. But I don't take much notice of things on forums unless I can find the government paperwork/pdf's to back it up.

    this was the first one I found from an FOI request.

    In answer to Q 1 the revised Work Capability Assessment (WCA) Handbook Employment and
    Support Allowance (ESA) (LCW/LCWRA) Amendment Regulations 2011 is the guidance used
    by HCPs who are approved by the DWP Chief Medical Adviser (CMA) to undertake ESA
    medical assessments.

    In reply to Q 2 the WCA Handbook ESA (LCW/LCWRA) Amendment Regulations 2011 has
    been reviewed and was re-issued on 4 October 2011. Page 37 no longer makes reference to the guidance you have requested clarification upon. This advice can now be found on page 40
    where it states in bold that “Any evidence bought by the claimant must be read and the
    report should make reference to the evidence that has been considered and justification
    provided if there is a conflict between the opinion of the HCP and the other medical evidence.
    Any evidence brought by the claimant, should be copied for the Decision Maker (see section
    4.2.5 for further guidance).”
    Pages 134 & 135 of the handbook also provide guidance for the
    HCP to follow in circumstances where claimants provide further medical evidence at the
    assessment.

    the second one was this.
    Fraud Act 2006
    2 Fraud by false representation
    (1)(ii)A person is in breach of this section if he causes loss to
    another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
    (2)(a) A representation is false if it is untrue or misleading, or
    (b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or
    misleading.
    12 Liability of company officers for offences by company
    (2)(a) If the offence is proved to have been committed with the
    consent or connivance of a director, manager, secretary or other
    similar officer he is guilty of the offence and liable to be
    proceeded against and punished accordingly.

    The aforementioned employee/s can also be held financially
    accountable for any other loss of benefit that accompanies the
    original benefit ie. Severe Disability or Council Tax Rebate.
    This is an English Law, however, it extends to Scotland on the
    ground that even though DWP employees are based in Scotland, their
    headquarters are in England.

    It does make you think that the trouble you could cause knowing this information.
    So at the medical, drop a few copies of the letters you have on the HCP's table

  2. #12
    Senior Member mikeydt1's Avatar
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    you are fully within your rights to ask your doctors to support you with letters.

    in respect of getting them to look at things again there is possibly a danger that the dwp will uphold their decision basing it on the ATOS report so i would go for the appeal, going the appeal way will give you a chance to obtain medical reports to support your condition and also give you a chance to pick the bones out of the ATOS report.

    still consider filling a complaint against this doctor, give them a taste of what they have done to you.

    mike

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretHoboSpices View Post

    Could someone tell me if i can get something from my GP now confirming everything and send it in
    You will find the DWP (be it the DM or ATOS) will not take incontinence seriously from a GP letter alone unless you have undergone consultations with a Urologist and had Urodynamics tests and a cystoscopy. I underwent several tests (as above and MIR / CT Scans) and saw two Urologists before they would rubber stamp me as being urge incontinent. I also take two lots of medication to help.

    Incontinence is a serious issue that should be investigated by the hospital to rule out any underlying serious issues. Your GP should refer you to a Urologist, its the GP's duty has a primary care provider. GP's cannot assess Urology issues without the above tests.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen66 View Post
    You will find the DWP (be it the DM or ATOS) will not take incontinence seriously from a GP letter alone unless you have undergone consultations with a Urologist and had Urodynamics tests and a cystoscopy. I underwent several tests (as above and MIR / CT Scans) and saw two Urologists before they would rubber stamp me as being urge incontinent. I also take two lots of medication to help.

    Incontinence is a serious issue that should be investigated by the hospital to rule out any underlying serious issues. Your GP should refer you to a Urologist, its the GP's duty has a primary care provider. GP's cannot assess Urology issues without the above tests.
    I have just read some notes on this in the last 30 min's. I will make sure I post it here. I am going to spend the rest of the evening finding it. Promise
    Phil

  5. #15
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    not sure if this helps you. Taken from the ATOS WCA rules/handbook.

    2.7 Request and Provision of Advice to the WCA Decision Maker when the Claimant submits further evidence
    At times, the Decision Maker will ask Atos Healthcare for advice when further evidence has been made available in the course of an initial referral, a reconsideration or an appeal.
    A collaborative approach has been developed by JCP and Atos Healthcare to provide guidance to both Atos Healthcare HCPs and WCA DMs to help in dealing with these referrals. Certain Atos Healthcare Practitioners will be involved in providing this advice. Full detail of this guidance is provided in the ESA Filework Guidelines. This section of the Handbook serves to provide Examining HCPs with background awareness of this role.
    2.7.1 Advice provided by Atos Healthcare practitioners
    Decision Makers can request advice from Atos Healthcare in 2 Areas.
    1. Before the initial decision is made.
    The Decision Maker may require clarification on an existing medical report on occasions when the customer submits additional evidence to the decision maker after the examination has been completed but before the DM has provided an outcome decision.
    2. After the decision is made;
    These cases are reconsiderations, either with or without an appeal. In most cases there will be additional evidence to be considered.
    This is usually provided by the claimant or the claimant’s representative.

    I have a copy of the ATOS handbook in pdf file format. makes very interesting reading(if you like thats sort of thing lol).

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeydt1 View Post
    you are fully within your rights to ask your doctors to support you with letters.

    in respect of getting them to look at things again there is possibly a danger that the dwp will uphold their decision basing it on the ATOS report so i would go for the appeal, going the appeal way will give you a chance to obtain medical reports to support your condition and also give you a chance to pick the bones out of the ATOS report.

    still consider filling a complaint against this doctor, give them a taste of what they have done to you.

    mike
    you need to send ATOS the same new evidence and you will ether get an appointment for a new medical or you will get a referral back to DM. or you could try the change of circumstance rules and just let the DWP know first.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Stepheninleeds's Avatar
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    As ever, I would advise some help on any challenge to this, be that asking for a review, making a complaint, or an appeal. If you have agood local CAB they are are more than willing to assist.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    Stephen

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stepheninleeds View Post
    As ever, I would advise some help on any challenge to this, be that asking for a review, making a complaint, or an appeal. If you have agood local CAB they are are more than willing to assist.
    even they are under so much pressure now. the new bill to stop legal add for people is going to make sure, we can't do a thing about it.
    but there is a gaping hole. you can still take the hcp and the DM to small claims court for loss of benefits

  9. #19
    Senior Member Stig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeydt1 View Post
    i have just been reading your message with interest as i have just had the same thing done to me where they have disregarded everything and it is not nice when you know they are full of lies.

    seriously you need to appeal to the decision. i would then go further than this and file a complaint to ATOS about the doctors conduct and if this doctor is GMC (general medical council) registered then think about seriously making a formal complaint, this latter would have more clout.

    mike
    If you are going to make a complaint never make it to an in house customer services department . Stig's philosophy is if you aregoing to go for it go for the place you will make the greatest impact and GO FOR THE THROAT and make your complaint to the highest level you can . However i have to ask are you sure he was a doctor and not some sort of therapist given 2 mins training on how to click a mouse and indepth training on how to belittle or ignore the needy .

    If he is a registered GP make an additional complaint to the royal college General practitioners .

    Personally i would use the blunderbuss tactic and complain about him to ever organisation i could.

    He should be/is bound by a code of practice and i doubt very much that sitting back and laughing at a patient will be found in that code of practice

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretHoboSpices View Post
    Thanks Stepheninleeds.

    Could someone tell me if i can get something from my GP now confirming everything and send it in (as the ATOS Dr didnt request it) whether it would make any difference?

    Should i now be appealing or asking for it to be looked at again by JCP because of the ATOS Dr?

    Could i word a letter to JCP as such that I am inviting the them to send me for another medical due to the conduct of the ATOS Dr?

    Thanks
    Get any medical reports you can and send with a completed appeal form GL24. The benefit office will review the decison and the medical reports may lead to the decision being changed in your favour. If the decision is not changed then you appeal will be sent to the Tribunal Service for and Independent Tribunal hearing.

    You can still get paid ESA at the basic rate as long as you put in sick notes while waiting for the appeal hearing.

    This is the Independent Tribunal Swervice site and you can see info about making appeals.

    http://www.justice.gov.uk/tribunals/sscs/appeals

    This is a leaflet about appealing.

    http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...ooklet_web.pdf

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