Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: PIP points descriptors

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    28

    PIP points descriptors

    Hi everyone,
    im just after a liitle feedback on what would you say to the descriptor engaging with other people face to facer
    i need 3 more points to get enhanced on daily living my gp says i should get the 4 points for needs social support to engage with other people and hes going to contest this. Just thought id ask for opinions and peoples opinion on what is social support
    Last edited by confusedlancs1; 04-25-2017 at 11:06 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    637
    I'm not sure on that descriptor but nuke is clued up on that, but if your doing a MR please remember they review the whole award not just the bit you disagree with, it could result in taking points away or adding points

    Best of luck with it I hope your successful

  3. #3
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Blastoff View Post
    I'm not sure on that descriptor but nuke is clued up on that, but if your doing a MR please remember they review the whole award not just the bit you disagree with, it could result in taking points away or adding points

    Best of luck with it I hope your successful
    i have noticed that nuke is pretty clever, im new to this site is there anyway i could contact certain ppl direct on here as in maybe a inbox message or something still getting to grips with the site

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    4,327
    Well as my signature says "I don't know everything".
    But it also says "I good at searching for, and finding, stuff".

    This looks a pretty good explanation of "engaging with other people face to face"-
    http://pipinfo.net/activities/engagi...e-face-to-face

    It says:
    “social support” means support from a person trained or experienced in assisting people to engage in social situations;
    It also has some links to court cases where judges have ruled on various aspects of this activity.
    Some of them cover questions about "social support".
    If you want to read these click on the purple writing, and then in the page that opens click on the blue download for the .doc file.
    (Warning; they are written by judges and so can be pretty wordy).

    That looks like a pretty good site overall for questions about PIP, I'm off to read some of it myself.
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-26-2017 at 12:59 AM.
    I'm intelligent enough to know that I don't know everything.
    But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

  5. #5
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Well as my signature says "I don't know everything".
    But it also says "I good at searching for, and finding, stuff".

    This looks a pretty good explanation of "engaging with other people face to face"-
    http://pipinfo.net/activities/engagi...e-face-to-face

    It says:


    It also has some links to court cases where judges have ruled on various aspects of this activity.
    Some of them cover questions about "social support".
    If you want to read these click on the purple writing, and then in the page that opens click on the blue download for the .doc file.
    (Warning; they are written by judges and so can be pretty wordy).
    could the social support not be classed as friends and family

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    4,327
    There is an Upper Tribunal court decision linked on that webpage that looks to be about that very question, I've not read it yet.
    http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=4812

    EDIT- quick excerpt from the judges reasons for his decision:
    I have concluded, for reasons which are set out below, that the concept of “social support” is not limited to support provided by persons with particular training or expertise or which is provided professionally and that the descriptor may, indeed be satisfied on appropriate findings where the support is provided by family or friends.
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-26-2017 at 01:26 AM.
    I'm intelligent enough to know that I don't know everything.
    But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

  7. #7
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    There is an Upper Tribunal court decision linked on that webpage that looks to be about that very question, I've not read it yet.
    http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=4812

    EDIT- quick excerpt from the judges reasons for his decision:
    wow that blew my mind and im still not sure what happened haha.... i think the judge agreed that friends and family can provide social support... do you think i could print this off and use it in my tribunal or is that a daft idea

    just noticed your edit haha

    what do u think to me printing it out as evidence
    Last edited by confusedlancs1; 04-26-2017 at 01:44 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    4,327
    More to that judges ruling on friends and family providing "Social Support".

    Paragraph 11 quotes a government response to an earlier tribunal that says:
    ...By referring to ‘experienced’ we mean both people such as friends and family who know the individual well and can offer support, or those who do not know them but are more generally used to providing social support for individuals with health conditions or impairments.
    Paragraph 19 also notes:
    .....The definition within Schedule 1 refers to “a person trained or experienced in assisting people to engage in social situations”. The use of the word “or” makes it entirely clear that such a person does not have to be trained and that experience without training will do. There is nothing in that definition to suggest that the experience necessary has to be derived from any sort of professional work and there is nothing in the wording to point to lay persons, such as family or friends, being excluded so long as they do, as a matter of fact, have the requisite experience.....
    You should read it for yourself, but overall the judges conclusion was that friends and family can count as people 'experienced' to give "Social Support".

    Of course that ruling is from 2015, there may have been a later ruling that contradicts it.
    Without access to a law library, and the training to use it properly, I have no clue whether there has been any later ruling.
    You would need a solicitor for that.
    (We did have a member called Flymo who was doing a law degree, he was invaluable for stuff like that but unfortunately he no longer posts here).
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-26-2017 at 01:55 AM.
    I'm intelligent enough to know that I don't know everything.
    But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    More to that judges ruling on friends and family providing "Social Support".

    Paragraph 11 quotes a government response to an earlier tribunal that says:


    Paragraph 19 also notes:


    You should read it for yourself, but overall the judges conclusion was that friends and family can count as people 'experienced' to give "Social Support".

    Of course that ruling is from 2015, there may have been a later ruling that contradicts it.
    Without access to a law library, and the training to use it properly, I have no clue whether there has been any later ruling.
    You would need a solicitor for that.
    (We did have a member called Flymo who was doing a law degree, he was invaluable for stuff like that but unfortunately he no longer posts here).
    thank you so much your so informative

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    4,327
    OOps, we keep cross-posting.

    I think that personally I would print it off but not use it unless necessary, ie. if the DWP question if your family count as support then you could quote it and give it to them.
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-26-2017 at 01:58 AM.
    I'm intelligent enough to know that I don't know everything.
    But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

Similar Threads

  1. Mom Awarded 6 Points Daily Living; 8 Points Mobility... Disability Premiums?
    By Aironic in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-08-2016, 12:23 PM
  2. Following descriptors
    By carl30 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04-13-2016, 12:16 PM
  3. help with descriptors please
    By Decpassat06 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-12-2015, 03:58 PM
  4. Who Actually set out the ESA Descriptors?
    By sea queen in forum News and general discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-18-2013, 04:15 PM
  5. pip descriptors
    By sixchips in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-16-2013, 12:10 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •