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Thread: How can some disabilities be fairly assessed when DLA applicants are called up?

  1. #1
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    How can some disabilities be fairly assessed when DLA applicants are called up?

    Hi,

    How can people who suffer from illnesses which can change from hour to hour, not to mention day to day, be fairly assessed for benefits? I have a condition which means that one day I can't walk due to chronic pain and the next I'm having a better day and I try to do everything that I can on that day, as I know the bad days will be back A.S.A.P.

    On the bad day, I stay at home, either on the sofa or in bed, which nobody sees, whereas on a good day, I take it as a gift and try to get out there, especially as I'm only in my 30's and I feel like I'm trapped in an 80 year old's body.

    I'd been told that I'm entitled to DLA indefinite award which I was told when I was in Primary School but I'm really worried about the re-assessments as I don't think they are going to be fair. Isn't being assessed today all about which candidates gives the best Oscar winning performance in front of the assessors... which is bad news for me as I can't act or exaggerate for anything. That's my biggest problem, I have the attitude of "this is me, this is who I am..." I have seen people being assessed for various benefits, such as ESA, and they've been refused and put onto Job Seekers whereas another person who isn't a fraction as bad has been allowed to keep their ESA because they gave different answers to the assessors, in my opinion, a better "show".

    How can anyone be fairly assessed under these circumstances?

  2. #2
    davewhit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Simply, you always tell them about the problems that affect you on your WORST day.

    It's always been that way, most disabilities fluctuate from day-to-day.
    do not follow this advice read answers to this sort of question ....on B&W web site and rights net telling them worse day if thats one in 7 for example will get you in trouble get expert advice they will tell you the right way to answer


    when Pip comes in the period of time affected is 50% of the time

    if you talk of worse day you must balance it with average day

  3. #3
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    Fair enough.

    Deleted my post to avoid confusion, I'll remember never to post answers to questions again.
    Last edited by Paul; 05-11-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Lighttouch's Avatar
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    PIP points system part one

    PIP daily living component points

    To get an award of the daily living component, you need to score:

    8 points for the standard rate
    12 points for the enhanced rate

    For daily living, the points need to be scored from activities 1-9 below.

    You can only score one set of points from each activity, if two or more apply from the same activity only the highest will count. So, for example, if:

    4 d. Needs assistance to groom. 2 points
    4 g. Needs assistance to bathe. 4 points

    both apply you will receive only the 4 points for the ‘Bathing and grooming’ activity. These can then be added to points for other activities, such as 'Dressing and undressing'

    PIP mobility component points

    To get an award of the mobility component you need to score:

    8 points for the standard rate
    12 points for the enhanced rate

    For mobility, the points need to be scored from activities 10-11 below.

    As with daily living above, you only score the highest points that apply to you from each activity, but you can add points from activities 10 and 11 together to reach your final total.


    PIP ACTIVITIES AND POINTS

    1. Preparing food and drink.
    a. Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points
    c. Cannot cook a simple meal using a conventional cooker but can do so using a microwave. 2 points
    d. Needs prompting to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points
    e. Needs supervision to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points
    f. Needs assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points
    g. Cannot prepare and cook food and drink at all. 8 points

    2. Taking nutrition.
    a. Can take nutrition unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs either –
    (i) to use an aid or appliance to take nutrition; or
    (ii) assistance to cut up food. 2 points
    c. Needs a therapeutic source to take nutrition. 2 points
    d. Needs prompting to take nutrition. 4 points
    e. Needs assistance to manage a therapeutic source to take nutrition. 6 points
    f. Needs another person to convey food and drink to their mouth. 10 points

    3. Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition.
    a. Either –
    (i) Does not receive medication, therapy or need to monitor a health condition; or
    (ii) can manage medication, therapy or monitor a health condition unaided, or with the use of an aid or appliance. 0 points
    b. Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage medication or monitor a health condition. 1 point
    c. Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes up to 3.5 hours a week. 2 points
    d. Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes between 3.5 and 7 hours a week. 4 points
    e. Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes between 7 and 14 hours a week. 6 points
    f. Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes at least 14 hours a week. 8 points

    4. Bathing and grooming.
    a. Can bathe and groom unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to groom. 1 point
    c. Needs prompting to groom. 1 point
    d. Needs assistance to groom. 2 points
    e. Needs supervision or prompting to bathe. 2 points
    f. Needs to use an aid or appliance to bathe. 2 points
    g. Needs assistance to bathe. 4 points
    h. Cannot bathe and groom at all. 8 points

    5. Managing toilet needs or incontinence.
    a. Can manage toilet needs or incontinence unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to manage toilet needs or incontinence. 2 points
    c. Needs prompting to manage toilet needs. 2 points
    d. Needs assistance to manage toilet needs. 4 points
    e. Needs assistance to manage incontinence of either bladder or bowel. 6 points
    f. Needs assistance to manage incontinence of both bladder and bowel. 8 points
    g. Cannot manage incontinence at all. 8 points

    6. Dressing and undressing.
    a. Can dress and undress unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to dress or undress. 2 points
    c. Needs either -
    (i) prompting to dress, undress or determine appropriate circumstances for remaining clothed; or
    (ii) assistance or prompting to select appropriate clothing. 2 points
    d. Needs assistance to dress or undress lower body. 3 points
    e. Needs assistance to dress or undress upper body. 4 points
    f. Cannot dress or undress at all. 8 points

    7. Communicating.
    a. Can communicate unaided and access written information unaided, or using spectacles or contact lenses. 0 points
    b. Needs to use an aid or appliance other than spectacles or contact lenses to access written information. 2 points
    c. Needs to use an aid or appliance to express or understand verbal communication. 2 points
    d. Needs assistance to access written information. 4 points
    e. Needs communication support to express or understand complex verbal information. 4 points
    f. Needs communication support to express or understand basic verbal information. 8 points
    g. Cannot communicate at all. 12 points

    8. Engaging socially.
    a. Can engage socially unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs prompting to engage socially. 2 points
    c. Needs social support to engage socially. 4 points
    d. Cannot engage socially due to such engagement causing either –
    (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; or
    (ii) the claimant to exhibit uncontrollable episodes of behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person. 8 points

    9. Making financial decisions
    a. Can manage complex financial decisions unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs prompting to make complex financial decisions. 2 points
    c. Needs prompting to make simple financial decisions. 4 points
    d. Cannot make any financial decisions at all. 6 points
    Last edited by Lighttouch; 05-11-2012 at 04:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lighttouch's Avatar
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    PIP mobility component points

    To get an award of the mobility component you need to score:

    8 points for the standard rate
    12 points for the enhanced rate

    For mobility, the points need to be scored from activities 10-11 below.

    As with daily living above, you only score the highest points that apply to you from each activity, but you can add points from activities 10 and 11 together to reach your final total.

    10. Planning and following a journey.
    a. Can plan and follow a journey unaided. 0 points
    b. Needs prompting for all journeys to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points
    c. Needs either –
    (i) supervision, prompting or a support dog to follow a journey to an unfamiliar destination; or
    (ii) a journey to an unfamiliar destination to have been entirely planned by another person. 8 points
    d. Cannot follow any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points
    e. Needs either –
    (i) supervision, prompting or a support dog to follow a journey to a familiar destination; or
    (ii) a journey to a familiar destination to have been planned entirely by another person. 15 points

    11. Moving around.
    a. Can move at least 200 metres either –
    (i) unaided; or
    (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. 0 points
    b. Can move at least 50 metres but not more than 200 metres either –
    (i) unaided; or
    (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. 4 points
    c. Can move up to 50 metres unaided but no further. 8 points
    d. Cannot move up to 50 metres without using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. 10 points
    e. Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. 12 points
    f. Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by another person or a motorised device. 15 points
    g. Cannot either –
    (i) move around at all; or
    (ii) transfer unaided from one seated position to another adjacent seated position. 15 points



    ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

    Variable and fluctuating conditions
    Taking a view of ability over a longer period of time helps to iron out fluctuations and presents a more coherent picture of disabling effects. Therefore the descriptor choice should be based on consideration of a 12 month period.

    Scoring descriptors will apply to individuals where their impairment(s) affects their ability to complete an activity on more than 50 per cent of days in the 12 month period. The following rules apply:

    If one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period – i.e. the activity cannot be completed in the way described on more than 50 per cent of days – then that descriptor should be chosen.

    If more than one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period, then the descriptor chosen should be the one which applies for the greatest proportion of the time.

    Where one single descriptor in an activity is not satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, but a number of different descriptors in that activity together are satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days – for example, descriptor ‘B’ is satisfied on 40 per cent of days and descriptor ‘C’ on 30 per cent of days – the descriptor satisfied for the highest proportion of the time should be selected.

    Awaiting treatment
    If someone is awaiting treatment or further intervention it can be difficult to accurately predict its level of success or whether it will even occur. Descriptor choices should therefore be based on the likely continuing impact of the health condition or impairment as if any treatment or further intervention has not occurred.

    Reliably, in a timely fashion, repeatedly and safely
    An individual must be able to complete an activity descriptor reliably, in a timely fashion, repeatedly and safely; and where indicated, using aids and appliances or with support from another person (or, for activity 10, a support dog). Otherwise they should be considered unable to complete the activity described at that level.

    Reliably means to a reasonable standard.

    In a timely fashion means in less than twice the time it would take for an individual without any impairment.

    Repeatedly means completed as often during the day as the individual activity requires. Consideration needs to be given to the cumulative effects of symptoms such as pain and fatigue – i.e. whether completing the activity adversely affects the individual’s ability to subsequently complete other activities.

    Safely means in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to the individual, either directly or through vulnerability to the actions of others; or to another person.

    Risk and Safety
    When considering whether an activity can be undertaken safely it is important to consider the risk of a serious adverse event occurring. However, the risk that a serious adverse event may occur due to impairments is insufficient – there has to be evidence that if the activity was undertaken, the adverse event is likely to occur.

    Aids and appliances
    The assessment will take some account of aids and appliances which are used in everyday life. In this context:

    Aids are devices that help a performance of a function, for example, walking sticks or spectacles.

    Appliances are devices that provide or replace a missing function, for example artificial limbs, collecting devices (stomas) and wheelchairs.

    The assessment will take into account aids and appliances that individuals normally use and low cost, commonly available ones which someone with their impairment might reasonably be expected to use, even if they are not normally used.

    Individuals who use or could reasonably be expected to use aids to carry out an activity will generally receive a higher scoring descriptor than those who can carry out the activity unaided.

    Support dogs
    We recognise that guide, hearing and dual sensory dogs are not ‘aids’ but have attempted to ensure that the descriptors capture the additional barriers and costs of needing such a dog where they are required to enable individuals to follow a journey safely. Descriptors ‘C’ and ‘E’ in activity 10 therefore explicitly refer to the use of a ‘support dog’.

    Support from other people
    The assessment will take into account where individuals need the support of another person or persons to carry out an activity – including where that person has to carry out the activity for them in its entirety. The criteria refer to three types of support:

    Assistance is support that requires the presence and physical intervention of another person i.e. actually doing some or all of the task in question. This specifically excludes non-physical intervention such as prompting or supervision which are defined below. To apply, this only needs to be required for part of the activity.

    Prompting is support provided by reminding or encouraging an individual to undertake or complete a task but not physically helping them. To apply, this only needs to be required for part of the activity.

    Supervision is a need for the continuous presence of another person to avoid a serious adverse event from occurring to the individual. There must be evidence that any risk would be likely to occur in the absence of such supervision. To apply, this must be required for the full duration of the activity.

    Unaided
    Within the assessment criteria, the ability to perform an activity ‘unaided’ means without either the use of aids or appliances or assistance/prompting/supervision from another person.

    Epilepsy
    Epilepsy is a marked example of a fluctuating condition where an individual can have no functional limitation one minute and considerable limitation the next. Assessment should be based on the impact this causes.

    Key to assessing individuals with epilepsy is the consideration of risk. Within each activity, the relevant descriptor should apply to a person with epilepsy if there is evidence that a serious adverse event is likely to occur if the person carried out the activity in that descriptor. It is essential to consider the likely effects of any seizure – type and frequency of fit, associated behaviour, the post-ictal phase and whether there is likely to be sufficient warning to mitigate any risk of danger.
    Last edited by Lighttouch; 05-11-2012 at 04:32 PM.

  6. #6
    davewhit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Fair enough.

    Deleted my post to avoid confusion, I'll remember never to post answers to questions again.
    well thats daft ........ your posts are as right as any bodys ..... if I post something wrong people correct me and I learn and move on ..... and the question about worse day has been dealt with in a decent way in PIP ...................(see below) but the "worse day" has caused people to end up in court


    Scoring descriptors will apply to individuals where their impairment(s) affects their ability to complete an activity on more than 50 per cent of days in the 12 month period. The following rules apply:

    If one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period – i.e. the activity cannot be completed in the way described on more than 50 per cent of days – then that descriptor should be chosen.

    If more than one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period, then the descriptor chosen should be the one which applies for the greatest proportion of the time.

    Where one single descriptor in an activity is not satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, but a number of different descriptors in that activity together are satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days – for example, descriptor ‘B’ is satisfied on 40 per cent of days and descriptor ‘C’ on 30 per cent of days – the descriptor satisfied for the highest proportion of the time should be selected.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Stepheninleeds's Avatar
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    Yes, I have posted many things on here that have been wrong, lol. Usually because I have been told the wrong information. What you said Paul actually makes sense, but it is incorrect for the reasons stated. I would have said almost what you said, with a rider though.
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    well thats daft ........ your posts are as right as any bodys ..... if I post something wrong people correct me and I learn and move on ..... and the question about worse day has been dealt with in a decent way in PIP ...................(see below) but the "worse day" has caused people to end up in court
    Well if you put it like that then I wouldn't have been as upset, but what you originally said was..

    do not follow this advice read answers to this sort of question ....
    You could have said, "I'm sorry Paul you are wrong..." and I'd have been fine.

    How about just thinking before upsetting people?
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  9. #9
    davewhit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Well if you put it like that then I wouldn't have been as upset, but what you originally said was..



    You could have said, "I'm sorry Paul you are wrong..." and I'd have been fine.

    How about just thinking before upsetting people?
    no intention to upset but using speech software to read and post so it can come across abrurt at times as for thinking sorry but get lots of points for problems with that

  10. #10
    Senior Member Stepheninleeds's Avatar
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    Online often we mean one thing but can say it in a way that means something else too, or comes across in a way not intended. I often type less because on my hands, & people often say I am too blunt or even rude.
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