playing along with the blue badge scheme...opinions??

[paul1234]

london borough of havering. thanks

[Lighttouch]

london borough of havering. thanks

Thanks Paul,

Well at least we now know who is responsible for the road markings.

http://www.havering.gov.uk/Pages/Str...ontrol_Schemes

I'll make further enquiries.

[Lighttouch]

I decided to look for the chain of command at Havering Council to see how requests for road markings filter down the troops and to look at their community engagement/equalities and diversity policies.

I'm casually seeing how they operate and where their weaknesses are which can be challenged.

Street markings 'chain of command' in Havering.

Request comes in from a member of the public to
1 Traffic and Parking Control who pass it on to
- the Highways Advisory Committee who then make recommendations to
- the Cabinet Member of Community Empowerment - who recommend a course of action to progress, reject or hold.
- the Head of StreetCare carries out the course of action after consultation

So if we want to make changes to the way things are done and empower disabled people - who do we talk too.

None of the above as our request will be swept under the carpet. Always start at the top as that person has clout and can raise issues at a senior level and order senior staff to look into issues raised.

So I will raise issues with the Group Director of Culture and Community who is responsible for many things including
- StreetCare .eg road marking/blue badge parking
- Equalities and Diversity
- Community Engagement

Next I will look at the Council's objectives, policies, procedures and various equality issues next week. And we will fire a shot over their bow to remind them we have rights and we want our say.

[paul1234]

Many thanks for your help and reply. I have got various hospital tests over the next 8 days so will pick things up after that.

[pcorcoran]

thats funny i work in havering

light touch its not a fuss over nothing if this doesn't interest you then thats fine but your being overly personal and unconstructive, sounds like you had a good night out though....

i have contacted the DVLA again and returned my tax disc and asked them to issue a disc which does not describe me as a person, my point being that the tax disc is a vehicle excise duty and as a disabled person you fall into the exempt class along with police, ambulance etc. so the vehicle is exempt from tax so the description disabled refers to me the driver now i cannot take the tax disc from my car and put it in my van so why does the disc say disabled on it? that simply describes me as a person and has nothing to do with the car, the car is not disabled i am not driving a disabled car.

so told them i don't want it....will see

separately and this popped into my head the other day i had forgot.... and the fact i forgot about it is the point.....
as a disabled person you do not have to pay for the congestion charge, i have my car and van registered but i can also register another vehicle if i am using it as a passenger by phoning CC on the day. the point is this (in relation to how the blue badge scheme works) i drive into town like everyone else and there is nothing to mark me out as receiving a concession i simply do not receive the PCN that i would do if i was not disabled, so i am driving in central london just the same as everyone else.

the blue badge scheme should work like that level playing field for all, how it works i am not sure, but there must be a better way. the main responses i have had have been to do with stopping abuse of the scheme especially with motorists using other peoples badges, if the badge as an object didn't exist and the scheme used another method to identify a disabled driver or passenger then there would be no badge to borrow or abuse/mis-use, simply by scrapping the badge you would start too prevent the fraud

i would say the blue badge scheme actually encourages and enables fraud

thanks,paul

[Lighttouch]

blue badge, car tax, accessible bays, technology

Right. All car owners are issued with car tax discs which last up to 12 months. Why have a tax disc in the first place - what's it for?

The tax disc proves that your car has been MOT'd (if over three years), and that you have current car insurance. So should you be the cause of an incident at least you have insurance that well pay the victim compensation.

You might say we don't need a visible tax disc - yes we do.
In heavy morning or evening rush hour traffic police occasionally set up 'spot checks' to manually view slow moving cars tax disc. Evidence has shown that people who do not renew their tax disc are more likely not to have renewed their car insurance and are driving illegally. The tax disc is purely a quick and effective 'visual' for enforcement officers to check your validity (as a road user) without stopping each car causing traffic delays. As discussed before, the benefit of being classified 'disabled' means your car won't be clamped or towed away (unless your car blocks emergency vehicle access).

Why do we have a Blue Bade and clock?
There was widespread misuse of the blue badge and counterfeiting - stolen badges were changing hands for several hundred pounds in London and being used by non-disabled people to escape having to pay parking and congestion charges.

The NEW Blue Badges are difficult to obtain legitimately as you need to fill out a 20 page document (unless you get DLA) and everyone must attend an interview where they take a digital photo of you and download the jpeg plus information to a central office that holds a database of all BB holders, prints then distributes ALL Blue Badges. The BBs cannot be counterfeited due to improved security coding including hi-tech graphic design, bar code, hologram and two photos.

NOTE - to protect the disabled persons identity the BB owners card photo is not visible when placed on the dashboard for all to see so your identity is secret. BUT should you be challenged by the Police or Traffic Wardens to ask if you are the legitimate owner of the BB they can demand to see the reverse. If the photo isn't 'you' they can prosecute and fine you up to £1000 for miss use.

Why do they use a BB clock - it's so old fashioned.
Well when Traffic Wardens issue tickets they also take photos of the car, surroundings, badge/clock as evidence and to secure a conviction - it's simple and works.

Why put 'disabled' or a 'wheelchair' symbol in accessible parking bays.
Well if you are driving around town in busy traffic looking for accessible parking bays you need to be able to spot an instantly recognizable symbol that tells you you can park there using a Blue Badge. More importantly it tells able-bodied people that these spaces are reserved for people with mobility problems as approved by the system. The accessible bays will be placed where it is considered a 'hot spot' with frequent footfall of disabled people needing to use that area.

I've just started work and there are no accessible bays near by - what can I do?
Contact the Council. Someone will come out and look at the local parking arrangements. The Council have the power to 'create' a new accessible parking bay near the entrance to your workplace and check the paving to make sure there are no trip hazards. BUT remember - the new accessible parking bay isn't yours - it's taken on a first come first served basis.

Can I park free of charge in pay and display metred areas for free?
Yes. In Manchester you can park there all day just by using your Blue Badge. Other Council may require you to set your clock and only allow a few hours free parking.

Can't modern technology be used to identify who is disabled and eligible to park free of charge.
Well I believe the way London's congestion charge is implemented through CCTV and 'number plate recognition software' when entering and leaving the capital. The same system is used at an enormous 'out of town' shopping mall local to me 'The Trafford Centre' but it's used to identify stolen vehicles. BUT remember it's you, not the car that's disabled. Unless you are prepared to be 'tagged' or 'chipped' under your skin then monitored by satellite GPS I can't see how it would work.

I have an 'all-singing, dancing' iphone with GPS - it can tell me where Blue Badge disabled parking bays are already. If, as you propose, that all parking bays looked 'generic' how would non-disabled people know where 'not' to park if there's no signage to tell them differently?

[VinceW]

Could we extend disabled bays to 4x4 and/or SUV drivers, as many seem (certainly where I live, near Gateshead) to believe that the spaces are rightfully theirs due to the size of their vehicles anyway, thus obscuring the disabled labelling. We could call them NABS ("need a bigger space").

[VinceW]

Orrrr... we could extend the spaces for use by the police, so nobody would know for sure if you were ill or an undercover copper. As a bonus the spaces would be abused far less, and invigilated much more.

[pcorcoran]

Orrrr... we could extend the spaces for use by the police, so nobody would know for sure if you were ill or an undercover copper. As a bonus the spaces would be abused far less, and invigilated much more.

now thats an idea that would also help them police there own stupid scheme so when you park next to them,,, get out of your car,,,copper goes wait a second he's not in a wheelchair picture on the floor says he should be...hmmmmn i smell something fishy here lets challenge them,,,,,excuse me sir,,,,,,

[pcorcoran]

blue badge, car tax, accessible bays, technology

Right. All car owners are issued with car tax discs which last up to 12 months. Why have a tax disc in the first place - what's it for?

The tax disc proves that your car has been MOT'd (if over three years), and that you have current car insurance. So should you be the cause of an incident at least you have insurance that well pay the victim compensation.

You might say we don't need a visible tax disc - yes we do.
In heavy morning or evening rush hour traffic police occasionally set up 'spot checks' to manually view slow moving cars tax disc. Evidence has shown that people who do not renew their tax disc are more likely not to have renewed their car insurance and are driving illegally. The tax disc is purely a quick and effective 'visual' for enforcement officers to check your validity (as a road user) without stopping each car causing traffic delays. As discussed before, the benefit of being classified 'disabled' means your car won't be clamped or towed away (unless your car blocks emergency vehicle access).

we know this, if its a visual then it just needs to be valid and dated there is absolutely no reason for disabled to be on the disc, the tax is a tax on the car not the person driving/using it, my car is not disabled i am so the disc is describing me not the car.... my car is not disabled.... a classic car is historic because of its age that disc describes the car

Why do we have a Blue Bade and clock?
There was widespread misuse of the blue badge and counterfeiting - stolen badges were changing hands for several hundred pounds in London and being used by non-disabled people to escape having to pay parking and congestion charges.

The NEW Blue Badges are difficult to obtain legitimately as you need to fill out a 20 page document (unless you get DLA) and everyone must attend an interview where they take a digital photo of you and download the jpeg plus information to a central office that holds a database of all BB holders, prints then distributes ALL Blue Badges. The BBs cannot be counterfeited due to improved security coding including hi-tech graphic design, bar code, hologram and two photos.

NOTE - to protect the disabled persons identity the BB owners card photo is not visible when placed on the dashboard for all to see so your identity is secret. BUT should you be challenged by the Police or Traffic Wardens to ask if you are the legitimate owner of the BB they can demand to see the reverse. If the photo isn't 'you' they can prosecute and fine you up to £1000 for miss use.

you could coat the thing in my DNA but i can still lend it to my mate, its a laughable system a polished turd, the americans spent millions on a space pen to write in zero gravity and the russians took a pencil....back to my mate.... they then place it in there car and 9/10 get away with it, are you serious to protect my identity!!!??? id say that is revealed somewhat when i take it in/out of my glovebox, so the system review has made it more difficult to forge but it is still a label for the disabled and it can still be borrowed used by the able-bodied so thats not much of a step in the right direction its a step sideways and a small one


Why do they use a BB clock - it's so old fashioned.
Well when Traffic Wardens issue tickets they also take photos of the car, surroundings, badge/clock as evidence and to secure a conviction - it's simple and works.

wardens take photos and issue tickets with timings to the able bodied and disabled alike, the clock performs zero function it actually does nothing

lchair' symbol in accessible parking bays.[/B]
Well if you are driving around town in busy traffic looking for accessible parking bays you need to be able to spot an instantly recognizable symbol that tells you you can park there using a Blue Badge. More importantly it tells able-bodied people that these spaces are reserved for people with mobility problems as approved by the system. The accessible bays will be placed where it is considered a 'hot spot' with frequent footfall of disabled people needing to use that area.

so i am on a road and the disabled bay is outside the cinema, the logical and correct location for level of use, so i park there but i am going to the postoffice at the other end of the road so in-fact the bay is not accessible for my needs at that time, when i go to the cinema the next day it is which is great, but really this whole accessibility thing like we are being done some massive favour is ridiculous. here is an idea the local authority identify an issue with parking for women and implement a new scheme with women only bays slightly longer than usual too help them with parallel parking because they find that difficult painting "women" on the ground so to avoid misuse by male drivers..... now i don't think that would go down too well?

I've just started work and there are no accessible bays near by - what can I do?
Contact the Council. Someone will come out and look at the local parking arrangements. The Council have the power to 'create' a new accessible parking bay near the entrance to your workplace and check the paving to make sure there are no trip hazards. BUT remember - the new accessible parking bay isn't yours - it's taken on a first come first served basis.

yes we know

Can I park free of charge in pay and display metred areas for free?
Yes. In Manchester you can park there all day just by using your Blue Badge. Other Council may require you to set your clock and only allow a few hours free parking.

yes we know different everywhere


Can't modern technology be used to identify who is disabled and eligible to park free of charge.
Well I believe the way London's congestion charge is implemented through CCTV and 'number plate recognition software' when entering and leaving the capital. The same system is used at an enormous 'out of town' shopping mall local to me 'The Trafford Centre' but it's used to identify stolen vehicles. BUT remember it's you, not the car that's disabled. Unless you are prepared to be 'tagged' or 'chipped' under your skin then monitored by satellite GPS I can't see how it would work.

too many ways to mention your badge could be chipped so it could stay in glovebox, like you say cctv we are most watched anyway, licence plate, bar code on tax disc, texting, card reader (online banking) type thing, oyster card to swipe over a pad/wireless key fob like private parking

I have an 'all-singing, dancing' iphone with GPS - it can tell me where Blue Badge disabled parking bays are already. If, as you propose, that all parking bays looked 'generic' how would non-disabled people know where 'not' to park if there's no signage to tell them differently?

i would suggest the disabled should be able to park legally where ever they want and not in a fashion dictated by the local authority, i should be able to park in any bay or any single yellow and a warden should be able to identify me with anonymity, simple, the able bodied should be fined for parking in accessible bays as in a form of "recognition" so when i pull up in an accessible bay i identify myself, and here is the difference!!!, to the provider of the service not to everyone just to the person/company whoever that i have pulled up and i am disabled, now if i am not or ii don't do that then i get a penalty..


i dont understand your stance against advancement or my position/view are you undercover dft employee? and if you are going to start a post with "right" as if you are an authority on the subject then please write something we don't know about not general information about tax discs and the parking system as it stands, thats a google copy and paste job!! your point about the blue badge mapping is a good one and with the way things are going perhaps thats could be integrated into motability vehicles?

it seems to me people don't like change and as the disabled community is at the older end of society then that change can be even more difficult but its like asking everyone above 50 should we go ahead with the digital switchover and then saying you have done a survey and we want to stick with analogue.

thanks paul