ESA - How can a nurse legally overrule a Consultant?

[Carneucopia]

Rather than a medical, I feel that "the customer" should be shadowed for a few days.

They would then get a true picture of how a person's illness/disability effects them.

Sounds harsh but yes - true. Of course the costs would be prohibitive, but the reality is that for many people their condition can vary day to day.
I don't really have a problem with the fact that the ATOS examiners aren't always doctors, but I do believe they should be Occupational Therapists. Again - in the real world that won't happen.

[seriouslyfedup]

Sounds harsh but yes - true. Of course the costs would be prohibitive, but the reality is that for many people their condition can vary day to day.
I don't really have a problem with the fact that the ATOS examiners aren't always doctors, but I do believe they should be Occupational Therapists. Again - in the real world that won't happen.

Nurses are allowed to do assessments because they aren't medical assessments but functional assessments. The main driver behind these functional assessments is a computer logic system called LIMA. It is based on over 1000 EBM's - Evidence based medical facts and figures, and they claim it's logic porcess adequately covers the majority of conditions. Problem is it doesn't. All through the assessment a logic programme is working in the background using the selected phrases the assessor has input to help the assessor come to a conclusion. The DM rarely over rules an assessment recommendation, because in the main they're looking at the final report from the assessment.

Also explains why some medical reports have some strange comments on them re capaiblity. The assssor can over ride some of it but they're encouraged not to, obviously some of them do though.

[mikeydt1]

i was aware of the atos Lima system years ago and for those who are technical below is the LiMA manual, if there is anyone one out there see if you can find any flaws in the system. (flawed any way )

didn't the NHS try and build a system like this years ago and it failed, think they were wanting a self diagnoses computer at the time where a person put in their symptoms and it tried to match it to a specific condition. there is some software on the net which i have tried but it isn't very good.

http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2012/0...hnical-manual/

mike

[Stepheninleeds]

Would be nice, but would have to be 24 hours a day & full access, to everything we did, without question.

[seriouslyfedup]

i was aware of the atos Lima system years ago and for those who are technical below is the LiMA manual, if there is anyone one out there see if you can find any flaws in the system. (flawed any way )

http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2012/0...hnical-manual/

mike

too many to mention them all. Assessor timed from minute he opens his file to the ned of assessment.
Logic built on EBM's , ATOS won't declare what they are under commercial privacy.
Assessors told not to deviate into free text to describe individuals condition, but instead choose a preselwected phrase which best suits. Because Lima doesn't understand free text and can't compute a logical outcome.
At one point system provides assessor with a screen showing what 'person ' said capable of doing and what the logic thinks they can do, based on what selections have been input. Assessor can over ride the system logic but has to give a detailed explanation of why they've not accepted LIMA's logic.
As it runs thru , it's logic starts to restrict outcomes available to assessor, only way to change that is for assessor to backtrack and change all their input.
LIMA logic programme set up to place overriding importance on assessors observations during 20 to 40 minutes than anything else.

And the list goes on.

Used to work as systems interface analyst and well used to big integrated systems programmes, with brilliant programming, which look lovely in theory but never work in the real world.
Can't for the life of me understand why medical professionals didn't stop this system in its tracks when its use was first devised.

[williej]

My we are all having things tough with these assessments from people who in most of the cases are not qualified to carry out the work they are asked to do,I had a home DLA medical a while back and when I got the letter from MSS I was lead to believe it was A Doctor .........
but when I got a copy of the report this person did not sign with Dr to the front of their name checked with the GMC register and this person was on the GMC only because they studied medicine at Universality and after 2yrs are automatically put on the register. So you could be studying as a dentist and hey work for ATOS..................
I had to report mine ( home visit person ) to GMC and have been inondated also with letters from ATOS wanting to look into it as well because the DWP sent them a copy of my complaint as well as the one I had sent.
ALL you can do is fight and fight it is hard on you but its the only way as far as I can see. ( I won after a long fight )
Hope this gives a little hope to you.