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Thread: ESA scoring system and how it works

  1. #1
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    ESA scoring system and how it works

    I have just found this link which explains how the ESA assessment is scored.
    I wish I found it before I had my assessment.

    http://content.durham.gov.uk/PDFRepo...Form_ESA50.pdf

    I am sure this will help others prior to attending the ATOS assessment.

  2. #2
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    there's been a few links posted on the site which give info on how points are awarded. I prefer the DWP handbook for ATOS assessors as it gives some insight into how they assess responses and the reason behind some of their 'obscure' questions which they seem to sometimes use as an inference of a capability to do things people have never commented on or agreed.

    Then there's the user's hanbook to the LIMA system which explains where all the junk general statements come from on the copies of the medical reports. And some other things besides.

  3. #3
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    This is different you use to get 15 points for that, it looks like now you will be automaticly put in the support group.
    If any of the following applies to you, you will be placed in the Support Group
    Absence or loss of control over extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder

  4. #4
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    If any of you have been on IB for several years, you might look at the two documents I have found.
    One is is about the points system and the other about IB to ESA conversion.

    This what you do not get told by the Jobcentre Plus. (They will tell you that IB does not exist anymore and that everyone has to be transfered to ESA.)
    --
    ESA for new claimants only.

    I am not an expert and cannot give advice, but I can read and so can you.

    ESA was introduced for new claimants on 27.10.08 to replace IB, SDA and IS.
    From 31.1.11 no claims for IB, SDA ans IS on the grounds of disability can be made.
    Please read: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch45.pdf – page 15 and 25.
    (I hope that the document has not been taken off the internet. If it has, I have a copy.)

    Page 15 makes it clear that the conversion from IB to EAS only applies to people who where granted IB after the 31.1.11. (If you are on IB, you can even still get IS and vice versa.)

    Page 25 will show that you have the right to go back to IB if you have been put on ESA despite having been on IB prior to the 31.1.11. Read section 45226, including the example.

    - If you have been on IB before the 1.2.11 and have been put on ESA now, you have the right to be put back onto IB. (You should never have been on ESA in the first place.) You should get back pay to make up for your loss of payments. From what I read, ESA is means-tested and IB is not.

    I suggest you read the whole document. Maybe you can find out things that might be of interest
    to others.

    If they (ATOS ) claim that you did not get enough points for IB or ESA, please read the points system:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../schedule/made
    Please read each question carefully, especially question 1. (Walking without severe discomfort.)
    I bet most of you who have been taken off IB/ESA will qualify if the point system is applied properly.
    (I hope that the document has not been taken off the internet. If it has, I also have a copy of this one.)

    Good luck to you all,
    Bill

  5. #5
    davewhit
    Guest
    so much wrong in bills post

    everyone on IB is going onto esa

    both IB aand esa can be means tested or income related

    you have no right to go back to ib once moved


    dont take my word for it get expert advice or join B&W

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bill View Post
    If any of you have been on IB for several years, you might look at the two documents I have found.
    One is is about the points system and the other about IB to ESA conversion.

    This what you do not get told by the Jobcentre Plus. (They will tell you that IB does not exist anymore and that everyone has to be transfered to ESA.)
    --
    ESA for new claimants only.

    I am not an expert and cannot give advice, but I can read and so can you.

    ESA was introduced for new claimants on 27.10.08 to replace IB, SDA and IS.
    From 31.1.11 no claims for IB, SDA ans IS on the grounds of disability can be made.
    Please read: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch45.pdf – page 15 and 25.
    (I hope that the document has not been taken off the internet. If it has, I have a copy.)

    Page 15 makes it clear that the conversion from IB to EAS only applies to people who where granted IB after the 31.1.11. (If you are on IB, you can even still get IS and vice versa.)

    Page 25 will show that you have the right to go back to IB if you have been put on ESA despite having been on IB prior to the 31.1.11. Read section 45226, including the example.

    - If you have been on IB before the 1.2.11 and have been put on ESA now, you have the right to be put back onto IB. (You should never have been on ESA in the first place.) You should get back pay to make up for your loss of payments. From what I read, ESA is means-tested and IB is not.

    I suggest you read the whole document. Maybe you can find out things that might be of interest
    to others.

    If they (ATOS ) claim that you did not get enough points for IB or ESA, please read the points system:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../schedule/made
    Please read each question carefully, especially question 1. (Walking without severe discomfort.)
    I bet most of you who have been taken off IB/ESA will qualify if the point system is applied properly.
    (I hope that the document has not been taken off the internet. If it has, I also have a copy of this one.)

    Good luck to you all,
    Bill
    This post needs deleting by admin.

    Bill has totally misinterpreted the information on the first link that he has provided.

    The information on the second link is pertaining to the old IB PCA, which has been superseded by the ESA Regs 2008/2011.
    e.g. It is not walking any more, it is "Mobilising" which includes the use of a manual wheelchair unaided.

    As from 2008, all new claimants had to claim ESA not IB. Existing IB claimants are being migrated over to ESA from end of March 2011 until spring 2014.

    Therefore, NO claimants currently in receipt of IB, will be assessed again under the old IB PCA, when their time comes, they will be transferred over to ESA, and will be assessed under the ESA WCA.
    Last edited by vikstar; 09-27-2012 at 07:46 PM.

  7. #7
    davewhit
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by vikstar View Post
    This post needs deleting by admin.

    Bill has totally misinterpreted the information on the first link that he has provided.

    The information on the second link is pertaining to the old IB PCA, which has been superseded by the ESA Regs 2008/2011.
    e.g. It is not walking any more, it is "Mobilising" which includes the use of a manual wheelchair unaided.

    As from 2008, all new claimants had to claim ESA not IB. Existing IB claimants are being be migrated over to ESA from end of March 2011 until spring 2014.

    Therefore, NO claimants currently in receipt of IB, will be assessed again under the old IB PCA, when there time comes, they will be transferred over to ESA, and will be assessed under the ESA WCA.
    the post could not be morr wrong if he tried

  8. #8
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    Hello davewhit,

    I do not claim to be an expert but I can read and I only ask that you do too.

    Have you looked ant the document? http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch45.pdf

    I am just pointing out that you should not believe everything you are told.

    Just read read the document and make up your own mind.

    IB is not means-tested as far as I know, ESA is and you will get less money after six months.

    If that was not true, then why does the government want to put all those people on ESA???

    The government want to save money and the poor people will suffer. They would not pay ATOS a billion pounds to change from IB to ESA if it was just a replacement. They could just rename it.

    I have quoted from some parts of the document published by the government. (Well-hidden I must say, it took me some time to find it.)

    The first part is form page 15 section 2520.

    "ESA was introduced for new claimants on 27.10.08 to replace IB, SDA and IS on the grounds of disability.
    From 31.1.11 no claims for IB, SDA and IS on the grounds of disability can be made, other than a claim for
    1. IS on the grounds of disability (see DGM 45205) made by a claimant already entitled to IB or SDA
    or
    2. IB made by a claimant who is already entitled to IS on the grounds of disability."

    They would not write this if all IB will be replaced with ESA, would they?

    Page 25 does show an example. Why don't you read it and tell us how you interpret it.
    Also read section 45228 on page 26.

    You have not read it, have you?
    Again, just read the document and come back and tell us about it.

    Are you sure you are not working for the government or ATOS?
    That would explain things.

    Also look at: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...ed/DG_10018913
    top of page

    "If you couldn’t work because of illness or disability before 31 January 2011, you may be receiving Incapacity Benefit. Since 31 January 2011 no new Incapacity Benefit claims have been accepted. You should claim Employment and Support Allowance instead."

  9. #9
    davewhit
    Guest
    yes you can read but new regs means what you have posted is wrong.....

    1 . ib finished

    2. both ib and esa can be income related depending on NI PAID or income status ie pensions or partner income

    as the other poster said mods need to remove your post


    here are new regs which replace what you read http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/228/made

  10. #10
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    Hello vikstar,

    This is not what the document says.
    ESA was introduced 27/10/08 but is to implemented from 31.1.11.
    It is not difficult to verify the date and it does not negate the fact that ESA is for new applicants only.

    Also look at: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...ed/DG_10018913
    top of page

    "If you couldn’t work because of illness or disability before 31 January 2011, you may be receiving Incapacity Benefit. Since 31 January 2011 no new Incapacity Benefit claims have been accepted. You should claim Employment and Support Allowance instead."

    This is exactly what I am saying.

    I only ask to read more and not believe all you are told.

    I was sent the second link by someone higher up in the DWP and it was not easy to get it, it took several attempts;
    see address below.
    "External Focus Team | Working Age Benefits Division | Strategy Group |
    Department for Work and Pensions | Room 2E22 Quarry House | Quarry Hill
    | Leeds | LS2 7UA"

    I have had a look at the link factsheet from stephen1959 ESA50, the questions look different from the form issued by the DWP early this year (ESA50 03/11) and different again from the factsheet from the DWP above.

    So, which one is correct then? Does anybody know? Let the confusion game begin!
    What is next? If your heart beats, you are fit for work?

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