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Thread: Mental Health - benefits

  1. #1
    Senior Member sea queen's Avatar
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    Mental Health - benefits

    This is regarding my post in 'Health' under Emotionally Disturbed.

    The young person in my post is on sick pay and waiting to see a psychiatrist.

    Has been arrested in the past (earlier this year) for agressive behaviour/violence and locked up.

    I am wondering if he would qualify for the WRAG if we could supply enough evidence even if on a temporary basis, although I doubt he will ever work as he couldn't cope in a main street school and was in a specialised school for children with his condition (whatever that is).

    Mental Health would be the only Descriptor he would come under.

    Any advice suggestions would be helpful as he is coming to speak with me tomorrow.
    Last edited by sea queen; 10-16-2013 at 10:27 AM.
    Sea Queen

  2. #2
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    Hello SQ,
    You need the specialist help of a CMHT social worker and/or an organisation like MIND for a ESA application like this young fella's, it is the way I would go were I you.

  3. #3
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    From what you have posted, I would be looking at WRAG descriptor 17.

    "17. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.

    17(a) Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace. 15 Points.

    (b) Frequently has uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace. 15 Points.

    (c) Occasionally has uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace. 9 Points

    (d) None of the above applies. 0 Points."


    If you can show that he scores the maximum 15 points at 17(a) above then that also puts them in to the support group, as it corresponds to Descriptor 14 of the support group descriptors.

    "14. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.

    14. Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace."


    Both the above correspond to question 17 in the ESA50 questionnaire.

    Even if they do not work, if you can show that the above would apply if they were in the workplace, then that would be enough.

    I would also try using ESA Reg 29 (2) (b)

    "the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and, by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work."

    Which would get them into the WRAG.

    Similarly, ESA Reg 35 (2) (a) & (b). would get them into the support group.

    "(2) A claimant who does not have limited capability for work-related activity as determined in accordance with regulation 34(1) is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity if—

    (a)the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement; and

    (b)by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity."


    You could use the fact that they have been arrested for aggressive behaviour and any other evidence or reports to support the above.

    They would first have to make a claim for ESA, using an ESA 1 & fit note, if they haven't already.
    Last edited by vikstar; 10-16-2013 at 11:47 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikstar View Post
    From what you have posted, I would be looking at WRAG descriptor 17.

    "17. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.

    17(a) Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace. 15 Points.

    (b) Frequently has uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace. 15 Points.

    (c) Occasionally has uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace. 9 Points

    (d) None of the above applies. 0 Points."


    If you can show that he scores the maximum 15 points at 17(a) above then that also puts them in to the support group, as it corresponds to Descriptor 14 of the support group descriptors.

    "14. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.

    14. Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace."


    Both the above correspond to question 17 in the ESA50 questionnaire.

    Even if they do not work, if you can show that the above would apply if they were in the workplace, then that would be enough.

    I would also try using ESA Reg 29 (2) (b)

    "the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and, by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work."

    Which would get them into the WRAG.

    Similarly, ESA Reg 35 (2) (a) & (b). would get them into the support group.

    "(2) A claimant who does not have limited capability for work-related activity as determined in accordance with regulation 34(1) is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity if—

    (a)the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement; and

    (b)by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity."


    You could use the fact that they have been arrested for aggressive behaviour and any other evidence or reports to support the above.

    They would first have to make a claim for ESA, using an ESA 1 & fit note, if they haven't already.
    It isn't clear what if any benefit the person in question is getting, as "sick pay" could be SSP or payment from an employer.

    "The young person in my post is on sick pay and waiting to see a psychiatrist."
    If it is ESA, then they should receive an ESA50 in due course.

    If it is IB, IS or SDA, then they will have to wait for their transfer over to ESA.
    Last edited by vikstar; 10-16-2013 at 12:09 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sea queen's Avatar
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    Hi and Thanks for the info, this y/p has never worked, he did try a factory job but walked out as he couldn't cope.

    I have no idea about his sick pay but will ask when he comes tomorrow, what do they put someone on who can't and has never work?
    Where does he take the sick note into DWP Job centre? and would they then instigate forms to be sent out.
    Also I will ask if the meds are helping and about how often he is 'losing it' whilst them.
    If someone/something upsets him he just can't cope and blows.
    He would be a risk to anyone he worked with if put under any stress.

    Were he my child I would have been pushing long before now, as it is I know the M/H is stretched so I'm hoping his gp pushes it before he ends up in prison.

    I feel I have painted him ' a nasty person' but the truth is - he isn't,- emotional - yes, but very kind and caring, he even put himself out to attend both my parents funerals in the last 3 years. he told me - I have come to support YOU and grandma and grandad were good to me when I lived with you. He has lovely manners as well.

    All this has been so helpful as when he comes tomorrow I can talk him him about any forms he may have received since our visit to his gp last week.
    Many Thanks
    Sea Queen

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sea queen View Post
    Hi and Thanks for the info, this y/p has never worked, he did try a factory job but walked out as he couldn't cope.

    I have no idea about his sick pay but will ask when he comes tomorrow, what do they put someone on who can't and has never work?
    Where does he take the sick note into DWP Job centre? and would they then instigate forms to be sent out.
    Also I will ask if the meds are helping and about how often he is 'losing it' whilst them.
    If someone/something upsets him he just can't cope and blows.
    He would be a risk to anyone he worked with if put under any stress.

    Were he my child I would have been pushing long before now, as it is I know the M/H is stretched so I'm hoping his gp pushes it before he ends up in prison.

    I feel I have painted him ' a nasty person' but the truth is - he isn't,- emotional - yes, but very kind and caring, he even put himself out to attend both my parents funerals in the last 3 years. he told me - I have come to support YOU and grandma and grandad were good to me when I lived with you. He has lovely manners as well.

    All this has been so helpful as when he comes tomorrow I can talk him him about any forms he may have received since our visit to his gp last week.
    Many Thanks
    See information here on claiming ESA. https://www.gov.uk/employment-suppor...e/how-to-claim

    "what do they put someone on who can't and has never work?"
    If it is down to limitations caused by diagnosed physical or mental health conditions, then theoretically they should be put into the support group of ESA.

  7. #7
    Senior Member sea queen's Avatar
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    Looking at the sick pay I have no idea what he does with that as he doesn't work.
    Confused.com
    Sea Queen

  8. #8
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    Hi sea queen YES he can claim esa and i also get esa for same reasons as him i went to boarding schools for kids with behavior problems and i was in and out of prison for alcahol related offences resulting in being charged with attemted murder in 1990 ive been on medication and havent drank for years but still get mood swings when under presure ..i was on income support with low rate DLA till my atos medical then only got 12 points because atos medical proffesionals are not qualified to deal with people with mental health issues and 3 judges have now made a rule to that affect so im heading to tribunal to overturn the dwp who are trying to say im fit to work..your freind can apply for esa over the phone at a jobcentre and then will have to send in sick notes till he gets his medical..
    I understand his issues and im glad your able to help ..if you want to see the judges ruling its on a site called public law project..my doctor is very angry about the way they are trying to stop my benifits and gives me 6month sick notes up to my tribunal..very best to you and your freind

  9. #9
    Senior Member sea queen's Avatar
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    Hi druid and thank you for your post.
    When he calls later today I will have a chat with him about the benefits side, I am hoping though that a member of his family who used to work at CAB part time will have helped him with it, all info provided by yourself and others has been very helpful with will enable me to speak with him on the bigger picture and discuss what he may be able to get as this is a new 'ball game' for us all.
    Sea Queen

  10. #10
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    Hi, can't see how much of a help I can be but I just wanted to say that the system is set up to make it difficult, but don't give up, because I can guess that the young lad in question would do without any support, I know someone just like him, and can see a lot of my younger self in his behavoiur too, good luck don't give in.

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