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Thread: So I'm being sent for another PIP medical assessment

  1. #21

    PIP Cancelled!

    Well in the end they decided to screw me and have rejected my reasons for cancelling the second appointment, and have cancelled my PIP, in spite of my updated doctor's appointment stating it was unsuitable for me to travel the distance they were expecting and request they arrange a home visit.

    So if I understand correctly, I now have 3 options, appeal, reapply, or both (I assuming I can reapply immediately).

    Is there any disadvantages to letting the appeal go and just reapplying? Does a fresh application bias against you?

    I can think of one reason to appeal, but it depends on how they work things out. Although I was only receiving standard mobility for PIP, I came close to scoring enough for standard daily living. I think with the changes to my condition in the mean time, which I highlighted on the PIP.1043/AR1, I think it would have been hard for them to deny me the extra points to gain this, this time round, which might give a motive as to why they've decided to behave like such d**ks (considering the appeals process will probably end up costing more than the 22 quid a week they'll only probably be saving for a week or two).

    My question is, if I'd had the assessment, and I'd gained enough points for daily living, would I have received the extra money from the date of the assessment (or maybe the time it was scored by the DWP decision maker?), or would it have been backdated to the time they sent out the PIP.1043 to me? If it's the latter, then I could be potentially missing out on quite a bit of backdated money if I don't appeal. Where as if it was the date of the assessment, I guess I would be only missing out on a week or so, if I didn't appeal, and the new assessment I was put through was fair and scored me the points.

    Also, if I phone to make a new PIP application now, and the MR overturns the decision (considering their 80% target, unlikely, I know), or I go to tribunal and it gets overturned there, can I cancel the new PIP application, or would trying to cancel my new PIP application end up cancelling both the old and new claims and leave me with nothing, again?

    I think I'll attempt to do the MR myself, but if that fails, I'll head to the Citizens Advice to see if they'll help me with the tribunal. Good idea?

    With regards to details in the letter from the DWP, cancelling my PIP:

    In the letter they've stated 'Independent Assessment Services tried to contact you several times and sent several SMS text messages for you rearrange yet no further contact was made by yourself' - this is, apparently in regards to AFTER i cancelled the 2nd appointment.

    So, time line goes like this:
    - I send a letter with my doctor's letter, asking for the 2nd appointment to be cancelled and a home visit to be arranged, 3 days before the appointment
    - I phone the day before, to confirm I'm cancelling the appointment, woman on phone confirms they've received the letter. She tells me I can't now rearrange another appointment or home visit, and it'll go back to the DWP, they'll look at my reasons and decide whether to cancel my PIP or send it back to them, IAS (hopefully to make a home visit appointment). I believe this is the standard procedure.
    - Apparently things now change, and IAS apparently make a flurry of attempts to contact me to rearrange the appointment, which I'm HIGHLY sceptical about.


    With regards to the 'and sent several SMS text messages' this is either a miscommunication between IAS and the DWP, or one of them is blatantly lying. The only text messages I received were two reminders for the two appointments, the last one being before I made the phone call to cancel. No text messages were received after I made the cancellation phone call.

    So someone at their end might well be lying, but can I prove it? Do IAS record logs of calls and sent text messages? And can I get access to this information for evidence?

    Also, should I be doing a Subject Access Request? And will it give me this information? I'm not sure how to word it, though, do I request all documents going back to my PIP claim in 2015 to now?

    It's harder to deny the 'tried to contact you several times' claim, if they are indeed, talking about phone calls (although it's a little ambiguous, no?), it may be true, it may not (although as the 'several SMS messages' claim isn't, I'd certainly have my doubts), as I tend to leave my phone off unless I'm phoning out, for more than one medical reason. I have issues with the phone, and generally have to prepare myself for a period before calling somewhere like IAS, never mind answering a call from them.

    In fact in 2015 when I first applied for PIP I stated my preference was to be communicated to by post, because this. It's strongly looking like IAS have changed this instruction without my permission. If they were attempting to rearrange the appointment, they really should have been sending me another letter, in my opinion. Is there a requirement of PIP that my phone and I should be available at all times to take calls from them?

    To me, there appears to have been some suspect goings on. I mean, if as I was told by the IAC call handler on the phone, when I confirmed the cancellation of my appointment, that it was procedure to pass it back to the DWP after a second cancellation, and as I understand it, that is standard procedure in this situation, why were IAS, after this, apparently desperately trying to contact me to rearrange when I had already told I couldn't? If I could rearrange, why wasn't this offer made by the woman when I made the cancellation phone call? Is it me, or is there a distinct reek of BS about this?

    And that's without the missing text messages.

    Hopefully these oddities would stand out to a tribunal judge, though.

    Sorry it's a big post, but thanks in advance for any help with my questions.

  2. #22
    Any senior/expert takers? *quick bump*

    I know it's a bit long winded with a lot of questions, but I'm worried about taking too long over deciding what I should be doing.

    Any questions that can be answered would be cool. Thanks.

  3. #23
    You're still going to have to have an assessment whichever way you do it. At this point, the appeal would be against the decision to cancel your application. If successful your PIP would be reinstated and you would then be offered another appointment. Financially, if you appeal successfully any increase in award made as a result of the assessment following that would be backdated to 3 months after you reported the change in circumstances. If you reapply instead, you'll be without PIP until a new decision is made.

  4. #24
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Just to add that you can appeal and make a new application at the same time BUT-

    1. It gets messy and confusing trying to keep track and sort out if letters are about your appeal (old claim) or about your new claim.
    2. Your appeal is only about the old claim, when a decision is made on the new claim it overrides any decision made by the tribunal about the old claim.

    For example:
    We had a thread on here recently where a member had done this; appealed and made a new claim at the same time.
    They won the old claim at the tribunal, but were denied again on the new assessment/claim.
    (The new claim had actually been denied before the old claim tribunal was held).
    So they only got backpaid for the old claim up to the date of the new claim decision, but no ongoing payments because the new assessment/claim said they did not qualify.
    They then had to also appeal the new claim, which I think is still ongoing.
    (I believe that for a while there were 2 appeals on 2 different claims going at the same time, even more confusing sorting out which was which).

    Just reading all that back shows how messy and confusing it can get if you try to do both at the same time.

    My advice would be to do one or the other.
    Either
    See the appeal on the existing claim out, then make a new claim if needed.
    or
    Forget appealing the old claim and just make a new claim.

    Remember that in this case if you do appeal and win then the decision cannot be a new PIP award, it will just be that they have to make another appointment for assessment.

    In the end its up to you.
    I'm just pointing out that while it's possible to do both at the same time it can be confusing, messy, and can have unintended consequences.
    Last edited by nukecad; 02-09-2018 at 06:09 AM.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoodle View Post
    You're still going to have to have an assessment whichever way you do it. At this point, the appeal would be against the decision to cancel your application. If successful your PIP would be reinstated and you would then be offered another appointment. Financially, if you appeal successfully any increase in award made as a result of the assessment following that would be backdated to 3 months after you reported the change in circumstances. If you reapply instead, you'll be without PIP until a new decision is made.
    Oh, yes, I realise that. I'm genuinely not trying to avoid an assessment, as much as I realise this new system of continuous assessments is designed to grind you down and give up.

    It's just health-wise I'm not able to attend the place they offered me to go, even via taxi, and couldn't offer me anywhere closer, and my doctor agreed (in writing, when I eventually got the updated letter). It's them that seem determined to force me to go there, and not offer me a home assessment.

    Ah, I see, so I assume the 3 months after 'thing' is pretty standard, and would have applied if I had been capable and had attended the assessment?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Just to add that you can appeal and make a new application at the same time BUT-

    1. It gets messy and confusing trying to keep track and sort out if letters are about your appeal (old claim) or about your new claim.
    2. Your appeal is only about the old claim, when a decision is made on the new claim it overrides any decision made by the tribunal about the old claim.

    For example:
    We had a thread on here recently where a member had done this; appealed and made a new claim at the same time.
    They won the old claim at the tribunal, but were denied again on the new assessment/claim.
    (The new claim had actually been denied before the old claim tribunal was held).
    So they only got backpaid for the old claim up to the date of the new claim decision, but no ongoing payments because the new assessment/claim said they did not qualify.
    They then had to also appeal the new claim, which I think is still ongoing.
    (I believe that for a while there were 2 appeals on 2 different claims going at the same time, even more confusing sorting out which was which).

    Just reading all that back shows how messy and confusing it can get if you try to do both at the same time.

    My advice would be to do one or the other.
    Either
    See the appeal on the existing claim out, then make a new claim if needed.
    or
    Forget appealing the old claim and just make a new claim.

    Remember that in this case if you do appeal and win then the decision cannot be a new PIP award, it will just be that they have to make another appointment for assessment.

    In the end its up to you.
    I'm just pointing out that while it's possible to do both at the same time it can be confusing, messy, and can have unintended consequences.
    I think my best option is to probably reapply first, and then decide about the appeal in the period I have to submit a MR. My main concern is if I'm starting afresh, they won't take account of the points I scored in the last assessment, and how close I was to getting the Living component that time round. A sort of bias against a fresh claim, if you know what I mean. Maybe they don't anyway, of course, but it might subtlety prejudice a fresh assessment if there's no history.

    But I think I have to submit a new claim, simply because I've absolutely no idea how good a case I have in the appeal. 3 or months down the line it might come to a tribunal decision and I could well end up with nothing, and then have to start from scratch with a new claim, anyway.

    I mean, I think they've behaved very unreasonably, and they've tried to shore up a dubious refusal with some dubious claims about trying to contact me to rearrange when the rules seem to say at that point they could'NT rearrange, but a tribunal judge might see it completely differently and take their side.

    I take then, there's no unique identifying number on correspondence to identify one PIP claim for the same person from another. Maybe their system can't even cope with 2 claims going at once and they have to bodge through somehow.

    Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
    Last edited by ethite; 02-09-2018 at 12:29 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethite View Post
    I think my best option is to probably reapply first, and then decide about the appeal in the period I have to submit a MR. My main concern is if I'm starting afresh, they won't take account of the points I scored in the last assessment, and how close I was to getting the Living component that time round. A sort of bias against a fresh claim, if you know what I mean. Maybe they don't anyway, of course, but it might subtlety prejudice a fresh assessment if there's no history.

    But I think I have to submit a new claim, simply because I've absolutely no idea how good a case I have in the appeal. 3 or months down the line it might come to a tribunal decision and I could well end up with nothing, and then have to start from scratch with a new claim, anyway.

    I mean, I think they've behaved very unreasonably, and they've tried to shore up a dubious refusal with some dubious claims about trying to contact me to rearrange when the rules seem to say at that point they could'NT rearrange, but a tribunal judge might see it completely differently and take their side.

    I take then, there's no unique identifying number on correspondence to identify one PIP claim for the same person from another. Maybe their system can't even cope with 2 claims going at once and they have to bodge through somehow.

    Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

    If you are not sure whether you have a case for appeal then how can you have a case for a new claim ?
    The basis of any legitimate claim has to be the certainty that you deserve it, the DWP may well disagree but you must be sure.
    Anything expressed is my opinion only and is offered in good faith. It is either from my own experiance or what I have learned on my journey. Take it for what it is or leave it alone. With best wishes D.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by David69 View Post
    If you are not sure whether you have a case for appeal then how can you have a case for a new claim ?
    The basis of any legitimate claim has to be the certainty that you deserve it, the DWP may well disagree but you must be sure.
    Oh, score the points to deserve it. I did last time and my conditions are now worse. If you read up, lack of 'deserve points' is not how I lost my claim.

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