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Thread: Washing and bathing?

  1. #11
    I would certainly refer to the descriptors if they were mentioned in a report when doing a reconsideration/appeal but I believe Flowers14 is making her second application for PIP not doing an appeal. Perhaps she would confirm?

    Although I respect different points of view I am perhaps coming from a different approach. When I am helping someone/assessing them before an application/with a PIP application I would not immediately ask them if they met any particular descriptors. I would ask them to start with a detailed description of how they bathed, prompting them with questions such as 'do you have grab rails? Do you think they would help you? Why not?' and so on. This then gives me a clear idea of what to write without needing to refer to the descriptors themselves.

    I think the descriptors are quite misleading and many people do not fit into one or other of the descriptors easily.

    I also believe (and this is just my take on human behaviour) that an assessor confronted with ' I meet such and such a descriptor and should be warded so many points' could (how can I put it?) ruffle the assessor's feathers. After all, that is their job. They are assessing the claimant on the basis of the evidence (story) they tell.

    It's a bit like telling someone how to do their job. Yes, refer to the wording/gist of the wording but personally I wouldn't quote the descriptors themselves.

    Just my opinion!

    The PIP form does suggest various things to write in the Other Information box which cover most of the points we have all raised.

    http://www.disability-equality.org.u...c6ddeb22cb.pdf (DO NOT USE THIS FORM TO PRINT OUT TO USE FOR AN APPLICATION - THEY NEED PERSONALISED DETAILS)

  2. #12
    Excellent advice and I wish now that I had done a lot more research myself before I completed my PIP2 last year.

    I note that in most posts reference is made to submitting evidence to back up the claimant's assessment of themselves. Of course medical evidence and general support is available in the main, but when you get down to the nitty gritty of how someone has difficulties and what they are when bathing, things can get a little muddy.
    Unless the 'professional' actually witnesses those difficulties at the time, how can they give a professional and unbiased assessment on them?

    I don't know the answer, that it why I gave up with my claim.

    Maybe I have missed something along the way - has anybody any ideas - it would finish off this thread nicely.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by tallit View Post
    Excellent advice and I wish now that I had done a lot more research myself before I completed my PIP2 last year.

    I note that in most posts reference is made to submitting evidence to back up the claimant's assessment of themselves. Of course medical evidence and general support is available in the main, but when you get down to the nitty gritty of how someone has difficulties and what they are when bathing, things can get a little muddy.
    Unless the 'professional' actually witnesses those difficulties at the time, how can they give a professional and unbiased assessment on them?

    I don't know the answer, that it why I gave up with my claim.

    Maybe I have missed something along the way - has anybody any ideas - it would finish off this thread nicely.
    I imagine it is far easier if you have physical disabilities as the medical report would probably specify things like (sorry can't use the medical terms) can lift leg *****, cannot reach behind back/lift arm over head - those kind of things.

    I think the main difficulties come when your illness presents itself through tiredness/feeling lethargic - that kind of thing.

    Some medical reports may help in these instances, along the lines of ''it is likely that **** will experience ........ or the side effects from certain medications mean......''

    But I do understand where you are coming from. Sometimes it is possible for a carer to write a letter explaining what they do to help and why. Other times it isn't.

    I believe that it is people with symptoms that cannot be explained by medical evidence that are likely to have the most difficulty obtaining the correct rate of PIP.

    My husband and I were discussing this last night after watching one of those awful benefit cheats programmes and I was explaining about the 'hoops' people have to go through. We wondered whether part of the problem is doctors' reluctance to get to the bottom of a problem. eg My back hurts. Take some painkillers. Have a fit note. And this then rolls on and on. Not all doctors are like this I know, but how many do proper investigations until the patient gets a diagnosis and treatment? If they all did not only would people have medical evidence for claiming PIP and ESA but the benefit cheats would be weeded out.

    Not a perfect world is it?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pmlindyloo View Post
    I imagine it is far easier if you have physical disabilities as the medical report would probably specify things like (sorry can't use the medical terms) can lift leg *****, cannot reach behind back/lift arm over head - those kind of things.
    Thanks, no it certainly isn't a perfect world.

    I am confused. What medical report would give that level of information? None of mine do. Consultants when writing to the GP tend to keep it simple - diagnosis and treatment.
    None of my consultants or my GP have/has any clue about the distance I can walk, the level of daily pain I am in or how I cannot care for myself fully.

  5. #15
    I would certainly refer to the descriptors if they were mentioned in a report when doing a reconsideration/appeal but I believe Flowers14 is making her second application for PIP not doing an appeal. Perhaps she would confirm?
    That was my understanding also, as neither reconsideration nor appeal were mentioned in the first post and you don't normally attend an assessment for either of those. I do think it's different with MR or appeal.

    I don't think it's necessarily evidence that describes exactly the difficulties someone has that is needed, more that the overall evidence supports the level of difficulty that is being claimed.

  6. #16
    I was under the assumption that this was for a MR or appeal. Because the message stated 2nd assessment I thought that this was the 2nd time they was sent for an assessment on the same case which can happen. My apologies if not because then I agree with pmlindyloo. If you are just completing the PIP2 form for the 2nd time then I would not directly quote the descriptors as there is no need to at this stage. I would always bare them in mind when I completed the form and structure my answers around them but I wouldnt mention them.

    Its good to learn how people approach cases. I also agree with pmlindyloo on when I am helping someone I would not immediately ask them if they met a certain descriptor. Instead I would try to get a better understanding of their difficulties by asking them relevant questions. As you mentioned this would then give me an idea of what descriptor I believe describes them best without having to directly mention the descriptor in the PIP2 form.

    I only directly mention descriptors if the claimant is at the MR or appeal stages of their case (this is the stage where I usually help people).

    Also I would not advise you to use descriptors at your assessment this would be a big NO in my opinion. This is what the assessor is there to do.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pmlindyloo View Post
    I would certainly refer to the descriptors if they were mentioned in a report when doing a reconsideration/appeal but I believe Flowers14 is making her second application for PIP not doing an appeal. Perhaps she would confirm?

    Although I respect different points of view I am perhaps coming from a different approach. When I am helping someone/assessing them before an application/with a PIP application I would not immediately ask them if they met any particular descriptors. I would ask them to start with a detailed description of how they bathed, prompting them with questions such as 'do you have grab rails? Do you think they would help you? Why not?' and so on. This then gives me a clear idea of what to write without needing to refer to the descriptors themselves.

    I think the descriptors are quite misleading and many people do not fit into one or other of the descriptors easily.

    I also believe (and this is just my take on human behaviour) that an assessor confronted with ' I meet such and such a descriptor and should be warded so many points' could (how can I put it?) ruffle the assessor's feathers. After all, that is their job. They are assessing the claimant on the basis of the evidence (story) they tell.

    It's a bit like telling someone how to do their job. Yes, refer to the wording/gist of the wording but personally I wouldn't quote the descriptors themselves.

    Just my opinion!

    The PIP form does suggest various things to write in the Other Information box which cover most of the points we have all raised.

    http://www.disability-equality.org.u...c6ddeb22cb.pdf (DO NOT USE THIS FORM TO PRINT OUT TO USE FOR AN APPLICATION - THEY NEED PERSONALISED DETAILS)
    Hi pmlindyloo. To confirm. This my 2nd start at pip. I filled in the pip form and sent it back. They replied with a date for me to go to them for an assessment. Ok. Now on this same appt letter it says...If you have any further evidence please bring it with you. So I got a letter from my gp, medicsl records and notes. Because the pip form didn't give me enough space to write all my issues I started to write a document stating how each descriptor affected me with my ME SJORGRENS and underactive thyroid.
    Because it states bring this evidence with you I thought I should be taking it with me on assessment day so they can make an informed decision. OR ate you thinking I should wait for the undoubtedly MR and then submit my additional written information. The problem is my first lost pip went to appeal with a was advisor who hadn't even spoke or asked for specialist letters or additional evidence from me. Hence it was me telling the appeal I had all these things wrong but no evidence to back me up. I was ridiculed by them. I guess I'm trying to be prepared that's all. Thanks everyone so far. I've been sleeping last couple of days. Will check message tomorrow. Thank you all
    Flowers

  8. #18
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    Some interesting comments: The following is NOT advice, a suggestion, nor a method......Just my PIP application.
    I did not feel that the "tick box" answers to the descriptors would represent properly what I wanted to say, so I decided in the end to generally ignore the descriptors and just write a "Typical day" diary, being sure to at least touch upon what the descriptors were trying to ascertain. This was of course backed up by medical evidence.........I keep a file of ALL documents, letters, certificates, prescriptions etc etc so these are always all to hand in one place.
    The assessor had of course read the "Diary" when I went to the assessment, and apart from a general conversation about how I was feeling and coping and a few questions not on the form I had a couple of tests ( Spirometer,I have COPD) .
    Lasted the full 40 minutes.
    Response within 10 days, highest rate for both mobility and care for ten years.
    As I say, it`s not advice or encouragement to do it this way, just seemed to work for me and my assessor.....
    Just do your best, ask for advice and try to be optimistic....it does help.........and its a better feeling than anxiety.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by stree View Post
    Some interesting comments: The following is NOT advice, a suggestion, nor a method......Just my PIP application.
    I did not feel that the "tick box" answers to the descriptors would represent properly what I wanted to say, so I decided in the end to generally ignore the descriptors and just write a "Typical day" diary, being sure to at least touch upon what the descriptors were trying to ascertain. This was of course backed up by medical evidence.........I keep a file of ALL documents, letters, certificates, prescriptions etc etc so these are always all to hand in one place.
    The assessor had of course read the "Diary" when I went to the assessment, and apart from a general conversation about how I was feeling and coping and a few questions not on the form I had a couple of tests ( Spirometer,I have COPD) .
    Lasted the full 40 minutes.
    Response within 10 days, highest rate for both mobility and care for ten years.
    As I say, it`s not advice or encouragement to do it this way, just seemed to work for me and my assessor.....
    Just do your best, ask for advice and try to be optimistic....it does help.........and its a better feeling than anxiety.
    That certainly is a novel way of approaching the completing of the PIP2. I would imagine that you put very little information on the form, using a 'diary' and written summary instead.
    I have to admit that I have known this to be successful but not for PIP but for AA instead. About 6 years ago I obtained an AA claim form for my father who at the time was 84, a widower and for quite a few years was having difficulties with living on his own. He refused to complete the from and instead sent the DWP a 6 page manuscript. Without a problem, some weeks later he was awarded the night and day maximum award indefinitely.
    So yes it does seem to work.
    Unfortunately for me i thought I was clever and filled the PIP2 in using every square inch of space - result no award!

  10. #20
    I'm replying folks but my posts keep disappearing but it could be me
    I am going to my health assessment on 19th August. This is just a health assessment but I thought I should take in extra information as it states I should in the letter they sent me with the appt date. This is a whole new claim. My pip form has been sent in. I've got a reply with my date on it.
    I thought following the descriptors would make sense for their reading and my writing. Its nothing to do with being succincent (don't know what it means but doesn't sound nice) it just makes sense to me to go down in order and explain (in order) how I don't cope in certain areas that's all folks.
    Thanks to you all for your helpful posts and thoughts on this. Much appreciated


    Flowers

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