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Thread: ESA Tribunal Won but on Universal Credit - what happens now please?

  1. #1
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    Question ESA Tribunal Won but on Universal Credit - what happens now please?

    Hello
    Won my ESA Tribunal this afternoon (got 15 points awarded) so they are advising to be back in the Wrag group and assessment in 12 months time.

    From March 3rd 2017 I have been claiming UC (on advice from decision maker).

    I am not sure what happens now or will happen now or is there anything I need to do ?

    Problem is I had a WCA for UC back in August and I have been awarded zero points (initially they thought it was for ESA until I had to correct them).

    So is this a bizarre situation that can be sorted easily or is it going to be a red tape nightmare?

    I will inform my work coach tommorow.

    Will I get backpay back to march 3rd?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Your situation has the potential to be a very complicated matter, to say the least, you will just have to wait to see how they (the DWP) are now going to play it.
    All I can suggest at the minute is, once you've spoken to your work coach and shown them the Tribunals Decision Notice, contact an adviser like your local CAB or similar and explain the matter to them, effectively putting them on notice that you may need their help depending on what the DWP decide to do.

    Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but come on back when you know what they're going to do.

  3. #3
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Hi again dmikef,

    This is one of those tricky ones to explain, but I'll try my best. (And you are not going to like it).

    I see from the above that you stayed on UC and did not go back on ESA assessment rate during your appeal. I realise it may not have been your choice to stay on UC, but it's water under the bridge now.
    If you had gone back on ESA it would be different because there would not have been the second WCA.
    (As I said back in your original thread in May it's one of the odd consequences of the UC system assuming that UC is the only benefit going, they never planned for it taking so long to roll out).

    I'm also assuming that the ESA claim was Income Related. (Because you claimed UC when found fit-for-work, and not Contribution Based JSA).

    So Firstly-
    You have to realise that the ESA tribunal was considering the original ESA decision made back in February this year, and how you were at the time of that decision.
    The tribunal ruling re-makes that decision from that date, and that decision from that date only.

    So the tribunal have awarded you ESA WRAG from the original date that first decision, and you should get backpaid the WRAG component from week 14 of that claim.

    Now the unfortunate bit.
    Because you have now had a new WCA and decision in August, that new decision overrules the tribunal decision. (Even though it was made before the tribunal was held).
    Remember what I said above - the tribunal was only about the old WCA decision at the old decision date, the new WCA decision was later than that and so still stands.
    It doesn't matter that it was a UC WCA; a WCA decision is a WCA decision and it is the same assessment for both benefits.

    So where does that leave you now?
    • The tribunal has overturned the original ,February, decision and ruled that you should have been in WRAG from the date of that original decision.
    • The newer, August, decision has found you do not have Limited Capability for Work (the thing that puts you in WRAG) from the date of that newer decision.
    • So you were only in WRAG from the date of the original decision to the date of the newer decision.
    • You should get backpaid the WRAG component for between those 2 dates.
    • You are however still fit-for-work at the current time according to the newer decision, and you are still on UC not ESA.


    I hope I made that understandable enough.

    What can you do?
    The obvious course of action is to MR and appeal against the new WCA/decision on UC.
    I don't think from your post that you are still within the month to ask for a MR of that decision?
    If not then you can argue that you had good reason for being late asking for MR, because you were waiting for the tribunal. (Which you wrongly thought would cover both WCAs/decisions).

    PITA, I know but that is where you are at the moment.
    Sorry it's not better news.

    Of course you should should wait for a letter and see what the DWP say about the tribunal ruling, (it will be as above), and contact CAB or a similar welfare advisor to double check all that I have said for your own peace of mind that it's correct.
    The welfare people can also help you with any new appeal.


    One extra point, not immediately important.
    It does get a bit more complicated if you then win a new appeal.
    If that happens then should you be on ESA or UC?
    There are arguments for both, no doubt the DWP would say still UC, but you could ask the tribunal to also rule on that in these odd circumstances.
    TBH I'm not sure if that point would be worth arguing, even if the tribunal rule it should be ESA it will be changing to UC anyway in a few years.
    Last edited by nukecad; 05-10-17 at 03:10.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Hello Dmikef

    Can you let us know what happened since my girlfriend is now in the same boat that you were.
    She just won her ESA tribunal with 15 points but while waiting she had to sign up for UC and had another WCA for UC (0 points) a month before the ESA tribunal.

    Regards.
    Mark

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sky's Avatar
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    This thread is three years old Mark and Dmikef hasn't been on since.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    MBP,

    As Sky says this is an old thread, it's best to start a new one of your own.

    But the points I made above still cover it generally.

    The tribunal decision only counts from the date of ESA WCA decision up to the the date of UC WCA decision.

    You need to MR/appeal the UC WCA decision, use a copy of the tribunal ESA decision to support your request for UC MR/appeal.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Yes since the thread was so old I thought he might have had some info that would help. Maybe he'll get an email telling him someone commented.
    We asked for a MR on the UC assessment and then I said never mind now because she's just had her appeal upheld.
    Since it's past 30 days now they better not say I can't go back and ask for an MR again or I'm going to court with it.

    Mark

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Does/did your girlfriend also have DLA or PIP?
    If so then does she live with you (or with family)?

    If she has DLA/PIP, and can be counted as living alone, then that could give a different route to try nowadays following a sucessful ESA tribunal. (A few things have changed with UC since this old thread).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  9. #9
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    She has low rate DLA.
    She lives with her adult, working son.
    She loses £75 a month UC because he's there.
    She does count as living alone for Council Tax as they just assess him as having the maximum earnings.
    He actually doesn't

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Thanks for that,

    Because she only has low rate DLA, and lives with her adult son, then the other option I was thinking about does not apply.
    I was checking to see if she would have been eligible for SDP with ESA, which would have changed things.

    But she wasn't eligible, she would have needed middle or higher care in DLA and to be 'classed as' living alone to be eligible.
    (The CTR is a bit of a red herring, CTR uses different criteria for 'living alone').

    So it's just as said above:
    The tribunal decision only counts from the date of ESA WCA decision up to the the date of UC WCA decision.

    You need to MR/appeal the UC WCA decision, use a copy of the tribunal ESA decision to support your request for UC MR/appeal.
    Last edited by nukecad; 16-01-20 at 15:15.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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