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Thread: Work & Health Programme Provider Guidance

  1. #1
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Work & Health Programme Provider Guidance

    The Work & Health Programme Provider Guidance is now (finally) available online:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...vider-guidance

    Note that this programme is voluntary for ESA and UC-LCW claimants.

    Expect to be pressured to go on it, especially if you are WRAG, but they cannot mandate you to do it.
    http://www.youreable.com/forums/show...l=1#post139759
    Last edited by nukecad; 02-02-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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  2. #2
    Is this what they've been trialling in Wales, do you think? Because this isn't how it's being trialled at all here. People have been sanctioned for failure to attend jobcentre because they thought it wasn't necessary and it was - I believe a form is filled in about hobbies and how they can translate into work.

    I've no idea if it's the same thing or not, also, we are always used as a pilot county for the DWP new schemes primarily because we have no advice centres here and the number of people claiming successfully with no sanctions is very low, the number of people who get sanctioned is very high as is the number of sanctions upheld along with those claiming ESA/PIP being very low and appeal success very low - the reason is lack of advice centres and difficulty representing yourself even if you can find relevant information online to help you. The gov have manipulated these figures to show these schemes work to get people off benefits and into work (ignoring being off benefits not necessarily meaning in work!) I'm adding this in case people unduly worry.

  3. #3
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    You need to be careful with the name.,

    This is the Work and Health PROGRAMME.
    It's a 2 year course and is voluntary for ESA. (It is mandatory for long term unemployed).

    There is also a Work and Health CONVERSATION.
    That is a one off interview, it is a work focused interview and so is mandatory for ESA unless you are in support group.

    From what you describe about the form it is the WH CONVERSATION you are talking about for being sanctioned.

    PS. They are both a load of b*****s.
    Last edited by nukecad; 02-03-2018 at 05:50 AM.
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  4. #4
    Thankyou for the clarification, the names are very similar and I couldn't be certain.

    I'll leave my question up as others may be confused in a similar way. I was going to delete it if it was different but actually as they're so similar I'm going to leave it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekki2017 View Post
    Thankyou for the clarification, the names are very similar and I couldn't be certain.

    I'll leave my question up as others may be confused in a similar way.
    You do sometimes wonder if they come up with these similar names to deliberately confuse people.

    TBH I don't think they are that clever, just too stupid to realise that similar names can be confusing especially to those with MH problems.

    A bit more about the Work and Health CONVERSATION.

    As said above it is a form of WFI and so is mandatory for WRAG and UC-LCW.
    If you are in WRAG or UC-LCW you have to attend, or be sanctioned.

    But they are also asking Support Group and UC-LCWRA to these "Conversations".
    If you are in SG and UC-LCWRA you can refuse to go.

    There are two forms that you get to fill in at the "conversation", one on your own and one with the work coach:

    Firstly there is a 'My Values' form that you are supposed to fill in but not show to the work coach:
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1

    Then this one that you are supposed to go through with the work coach.
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...4c.ESAHWC1.pdf
    Last edited by nukecad; 02-03-2018 at 10:12 AM.
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  6. #6
    Thankyou.

    I know from social worker people in support group have been called and sanctioned for not attending the conversation here because they told me if asked I must go or I risk losing my ESA.

    That is, however, typical for my area. I've been sanctioned for not attending a compulsory referral to a back to work provider before whilst in support group. I had to appeal before my money was reinstated.

  7. #7
    I would contact my MP bekki, and also raise a storm on Twitter or something? Contact DPaC (disabled people against cuts) and inform them this is happening, they will probably investigate as that is illegal.

    There is no provision within the law for support group claimants to be sanctioned for not attending things.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There has been, and still is, quite a bit of controversy about the H&W Conversation.

    To start with, it is designed to be held for new claims before they have been assessed. (They are also using it with existing claimants though).

    There has been a big stink about this because it means that potentialy vulnerable claimants are being mandated to a WFI.

    There is a list of exemptions from attending the H&W Conversation
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1

    Because it is meant to be held before you are assessed there is no mention of Support Group being exempt, because claimants are not supposed to even be in a group when this "conversation" is held.

    However-
    The 'invitation' letter clearly states:
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1
    The health and work conversation is a type of work focused interview.
    As we all know Support Group are exempt from mandatory WFIs. (But they can go voluntarily).
    The DWP acknowledge this themselves, here's just one example:
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1
    Support Group – Limited Capability for Work Related Activity

    Claimants in the Support Group (SG) have Limited Capability for Work
    Related Activity (LCWRA). They are not subject to any mandatory
    conditionality.
    SG claimants can choose to participate in Work Related Activity
    (WRA) on a voluntary basis and they can ask for voluntary support at any
    time. If SG claimants volunteer to participate in WRA but decide to stop, at
    any time, their Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) entitlement is not
    affected and they cannot be sanctioned. Jobcentres can choose to voluntarily
    engage with suitable SG claimants by telling them about the help and support
    available from Jobcentres and Work Programme providers. Offering voluntary
    support to a support group claimant is at the discretion of the work coach. An
    offer of voluntary support will not be suitable for all SG claimants.
    As the DWP clearly state in their 'invitation' letter that this is a WFI then Support Group cannot be mandated to them, and cannot be sanctioned for not attending.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  9. #9
    When it happened to me the MP (at the time) told me it was my fault for not engaging and that the letter clearly stated I would lose benefit if I didn't attend. At the time all requests had that in them and as so few people here claim out of work benefit JSA and ESA (both groups), due to lack of help not need, everyone in both groups were asked to attend and money stopped if they didn't do so. There was no checking which group a person was in.

    Ive contacted organisations about it but they're only interested if it is happening to you at that time (I'm sure this is due to resources/their own funding) and won't offer help via email (I can't use a phone) but yes organisations are aware it's happening.

  10. #10
    My experience wasn't this programme.

    I don't know all the circumstances of those it has happened to.

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