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Thread: Are HCP's the enemy ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Are HCP's the enemy ?

    For most of us, we will have to have a face to face assessment as part of out claim.

    Many accounts on the forums talk about the lies that HCP's tell and the inaccuracies of the reports that bear little reflection of the assessment. Undoubtedly these things happen but with the system we have at the moment we need HCP's to be our friends.

    If we start out with the attitude that the HCP is our enemy, like a dog, they will smell your fear.

    The HCP is the key to receiving the award that we deserve. What ever their qualification, they are still people doing a job and most people react more favourably when their job is made easier for them.

    Now I hear many of you ask, why should we make their job easy ?

    The simple answer is that it is your award that is really in their hands, the easier you make it for them, the more likely it is that they will come to the right decision.

    So what can we do to help ourselves ?

    Start from the begining with the claim form. Understand what is required, know the points system, the descriptors and the criteria for an award.

    Only send relevant evidence that attests to your functionality. Medical evidence usually only tells the why not the how.

    More is not always better. HCP's and DM's do not have time to read the equvalent of "War and Peace" to find the snippets of evidence that are relevant to your claim. Many people do tend to waffle on, don't.

    If you do have to send a lot of evidence then produce a summary with bullet points and reference each to the page and paragraph that is relevant to each descriptor.

    Do not try and cram your answers into the little boxes. Produce your answers on separate sheets attached to the back of the form, preferabley typed for easy reading. Reference each box to the attached sheet.

    Descriptors are not all yes or no answers.

    Often overlooked by HCP's and ourselves are the reliability factors which are absolutely crucial.
    Guidance issued by the DWP states that you need to be able to complete an activity ‘reliably’ in order for it to apply. According to the guidance, ‘reliably’ means whether you can do so:

    • Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
    • To a necessary and acceptable standard – given the nature of the activity.
    • Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
    • In a reasonable time period no more than twice as long as a person without a physical or mental health condition would take to carry out the activity.

    So, for example, if you can ‘wash and bathe unaided’ you will not score any points for that activity. But if it takes you hours to do so or it would be dangerous to leave you alone to bathe – for example, because you might have a seizure - then you may score points.

    Or if you could walk 20 metres once, but afterwards you would be so exhausted that you could not do so again for hours or you would be unable to carry out other everyday activities after walking 20 metres, then you may count as not being able to do so.
    Or if you can walk, but only in considerable pain, you may be able to score more points than you think. Let's say you are someone who walks over 50 metres only by pushing through the pain, for example because you want to stay as active and independent as possible. Because the meaning of 'reliably' includes 'to an acceptable standard', you may be able to score points for walking 50 metres or less by showing that the distance you walk in considerable pain does not count as walking 'to an acceptable standard.

    Applying these factors to each descriptor can make a big difference

    That is all you can do to prepare in advance, keep a copy

    When you attend your f2f whether at home or an assessment centre, again be prepared.

    Have with you your ID, medication list and any additional relevant evidence.

    The assessor should show you their ID, if not, ask to see it

    You do not need to make any special effort, it is not a date. Take your meds as prescribed, don't take extra but also don't miss out on taking them.

    The Assessor has a schedule which they are keen to stick to and will not often deviate. Primarily it is a tick box exercise. You may have a list of questions that you want to ask. The reality is that the assessor can't or won't answer many. The assessor will make notes but the report will be written later

    The assessor needs to see you without the coping mechanisms we all use. For many of us with long term conditions this is probably the hardest part of the assessment. Nobody wants to be disabled and do everything we can to hide it. You cannot hide it from the assessor if you want an accurate report. They do not have crystal balls, your job is to show them and explain to them so that they understand what your life is like. If I just told you that the sky is green would you believe me ?

    You do deserve the award, you have nothing to hide. Let the HCP do their job and help them to do it correctly.

    This is not a guarantee, some will always go wrong and end up going through the appeal process but by laying a good solid foundation will certainly give you yourself every chance of getting the award you deserve
    Anything expressed is my opinion only and is offered in good faith. It is either from my own experiance or what I have learned on my journey. Take it for what it is or leave it alone. With best wishes D.

  2. #2
    Absolutely agree with you in all you have said, I had my f2f 4 years ago and was myself had no prep or notes, all questions were answered as openly as I could be and just was myself, I had my support worker with me and it was just that-moral support as she said nor asked anything. I came away not knowing which way it would go and was placed in esa sg. So how you've written the above is how folk should approach them.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by David69 View Post
    For most of us, we will have to have a face to face assessment as part of out claim.

    Many accounts on the forums talk about the lies that HCP's tell and the inaccuracies of the reports that bear little reflection of the assessment. Undoubtedly these things happen but with the system we have at the moment we need HCP's to be our friends.

    If we start out with the attitude that the HCP is our enemy, like a dog, they will smell your fear.

    The HCP is the key to receiving the award that we deserve. What ever their qualification, they are still people doing a job and most people react more favourably when their job is made easier for them.

    Now I hear many of you ask, why should we make their job easy ?

    The simple answer is that it is your award that is really in their hands, the easier you make it for them, the more likely it is that they will come to the right decision.

    So what can we do to help ourselves ?

    Start from the begining with the claim form. Understand what is required, know the points system, the descriptors and the criteria for an award.

    Only send relevant evidence that attests to your functionality. Medical evidence usually only tells the why not the how.

    More is not always better. HCP's and DM's do not have time to read the equvalent of "War and Peace" to find the snippets of evidence that are relevant to your claim. Many people do tend to waffle on, don't.

    If you do have to send a lot of evidence then produce a summary with bullet points and reference each to the page and paragraph that is relevant to each descriptor.

    Do not try and cram your answers into the little boxes. Produce your answers on separate sheets attached to the back of the form, preferabley typed for easy reading. Reference each box to the attached sheet.

    Descriptors are not all yes or no answers.

    Often overlooked by HCP's and ourselves are the reliability factors which are absolutely crucial.
    Guidance issued by the DWP states that you need to be able to complete an activity ‘reliably’ in order for it to apply. According to the guidance, ‘reliably’ means whether you can do so:

    • Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
    • To a necessary and acceptable standard – given the nature of the activity.
    • Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
    • In a reasonable time period no more than twice as long as a person without a physical or mental health condition would take to carry out the activity.

    So, for example, if you can ‘wash and bathe unaided’ you will not score any points for that activity. But if it takes you hours to do so or it would be dangerous to leave you alone to bathe – for example, because you might have a seizure - then you may score points.

    Or if you could walk 20 metres once, but afterwards you would be so exhausted that you could not do so again for hours or you would be unable to carry out other everyday activities after walking 20 metres, then you may count as not being able to do so.
    Or if you can walk, but only in considerable pain, you may be able to score more points than you think. Let's say you are someone who walks over 50 metres only by pushing through the pain, for example because you want to stay as active and independent as possible. Because the meaning of 'reliably' includes 'to an acceptable standard', you may be able to score points for walking 50 metres or less by showing that the distance you walk in considerable pain does not count as walking 'to an acceptable standard.

    Applying these factors to each descriptor can make a big difference

    That is all you can do to prepare in advance, keep a copy

    When you attend your f2f whether at home or an assessment centre, again be prepared.

    Have with you your ID, medication list and any additional relevant evidence.

    The assessor should show you their ID, if not, ask to see it

    You do not need to make any special effort, it is not a date. Take your meds as prescribed, don't take extra but also don't miss out on taking them.

    The Assessor has a schedule which they are keen to stick to and will not often deviate. Primarily it is a tick box exercise. You may have a list of questions that you want to ask. The reality is that the assessor can't or won't answer many. The assessor will make notes but the report will be written later

    The assessor needs to see you without the coping mechanisms we all use. For many of us with long term conditions this is probably the hardest part of the assessment. Nobody wants to be disabled and do everything we can to hide it. You cannot hide it from the assessor if you want an accurate report. They do not have crystal balls, your job is to show them and explain to them so that they understand what your life is like. If I just told you that the sky is green would you believe me ?

    You do deserve the award, you have nothing to hide. Let the HCP do their job and help them to do it correctly.

    This is not a guarantee, some will always go wrong and end up going through the appeal process but by laying a good solid foundation will certainly give you yourself every chance of getting the award you deserve
    What a load of nonsense, they are not qualified, they are just making money, getting away with it, and knowing they can get away with, HCP, vile little creatures who will never make it in life, but opportunist in this life.

    How many ill people having taking their own life's since the reforms.

    Enjoy your award, you were lucky or otherwise how you come across on here, remember it's only money, and in your vision everyone entitled to that via welfare benefits needs to get on their knees and pray to some two bob wannabee who will never be, good shout, unbelievable.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan64 View Post
    What a load of nonsense, they are not qualified, they are just making money, getting away with it, and knowing they can get away with, HCP, vile little creatures who will never make it in life, but opportunist in this life.

    How many ill people having taking their own life's since the reforms.

    Enjoy your award, you were lucky or otherwise how you come across on here, remember it's only money, and in your vision everyone entitled to that via welfare benefits needs to get on their knees and pray to some two bob wannabee who will never be, good shout, unbelievable.
    Trojan64, you really do have a hatred of all HCP's. As I have said previously there are good and bad in all professions. You can't tar them all with the same brush which is what you are doing. In fact I think some of your hatred posts could be construed as libel.
    I appreciate that the award that should have been has not been awarded therefore making you feel so bitter and you are having to fight for the rightful one. Sadly you were one of the unfortunate ones to have a HCP that was not honest.

    Yes, the system is greatly flawed and yes people have taken their lives because of the HCP not doing their job properly but there is no need for the vitriol you are spewing out on here.
    In fact, if I was a moderator, as I am on another site, I'm afraid I would have terminated your registration by now.

    Now please calm down as fighting with that attitude and temper will get you absolutely nowhere.
    Last edited by beau; 03-04-2018 at 12:40 PM.

  5. #5
    I am going to have to agree with you David my medical specialist always provided me with a copy of their report, you have a right to request a copy. I had help with our local Citizens Advice to complete my PIP forms. You need to complete these form like a CV short, precise and to the point, if in doubt the HCP can refer back to medical reports. Fortunately my award was paper based.

    However, prior to my PIP award my ESA, did not go so well, the report was very misleading, the handwriting was virtually unreadable, My GP was outrage and provided a strong recommendation, My MP became involved and informed that this particular ATOS HCP name had been raised in Parliament on several occasions. Disability Wales became involved and the award was overturn now in support group.

    There are good and bad HCP out there, unfortunately the ESA application we tried to complete without professional help and it went wrong, the PIP application professional help. The morale of the story here, DO NOT try and complete these forms by yourself they are far to complex, get professional help.

  6. #6
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    Trojan speaks like a typical failed applicant who refuses to examine their own part in the proceedings, commonly found in the "all rights but no reponsibilities " brigade.
    I took care to read thoroughly what was expected from me, what to expect from the assessor, treated the assessor with the same good manners respect and decency I would expect for myself and had no problem each time I went for assesment.
    I did not demand a recording, to see what was written on the computer or the finished report, or demand to know if the assessor was a trained and qualified practitioner, or in any way treat the assessor as an enemy.
    If you go in making war you can hardly expect courtesy and consideration back can you?

  7. #7
    just to add , ive never herd anyone on this site say "i failed because i wasnt entitled" and yes if you dont fill out forms or explain yourself at the f2f , then you WILL fail.

  8. #8
    My experience with the HCP (I am loathe to call her a prefessional) was not a good one. Inaccuracies, playing down what I had said and just making things up. I did complain though and Independent Assessment services agreed with everything I had said. I would bet my bottom dollar that she is still working for them though.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan64 View Post
    What a load of nonsense, they are not qualified, they are just making money, getting away with it, and knowing they can get away with, HCP, vile little creatures who will never make it in life, but opportunist in this life.

    How many ill people having taking their own life's since the reforms.

    Enjoy your award, you were lucky or otherwise how you come across on here, remember it's only money, and in your vision everyone entitled to that via welfare benefits needs to get on their knees and pray to some two bob wannabee who will never be, good shout, unbelievable.
    Well its good to see you are not bitter.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Trojan's husband lost his ESA for a failure to attend a WCA, nothing to do with the assessor at all.

    I understand her bitterness at what she says happened (no appointment letter received, no second chance) but that was the DWP and nothing to do with the assessor.

    Her husband now has UC-LCW (in payment) following another WCA.
    They are currently challenging this for LCWRA.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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