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Thread: UC and new style ESA and ESA

  1. #1
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    UC and new style ESA and ESA

    There is a lot of talk about everyone going on to UC at some point but not much about new style ESA

    If you are on ESA with no passported benefits, does this count as a continuous claim for NI purposes ?
    In this case, when you are migrated naturally does your claim become new style ESA and remain outside UC ?

    When all areas are UC following natural migration, and you then become unable to work but have sufficient NI contributions, Do you claim UC or new style ESA ?
    Anything expressed is my opinion only and is offered in good faith. It is either from my own experiance or what I have learned on my journey. Take it for what it is or leave it alone. With best wishes D.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Only Income Related benefits will be migrated to Universal Credit, sometime after June 2019, this will be a 'linked claim' so will count as continous from when you first claimed.

    Existing Contribution Based ESA claims stay outside of UC, and stay as they are - 'Old Style' ESA governed by the 2008 regulations.

    If you have CB ESA with an IR ESA entitlement/top-up this will become CB ESA with a UC entitlement/top-up.
    (The ESA governed by the 2008 ESA regs, the UC governed by the UC regs)


    Any NEW claim for a Contribution Based benefit made in a Full Service UC area will be 'New Style' ESA or JSA, covered by the 2013 regulations.
    (But currently you're still told to make the claim through the UC application phoneline, odd isn't it?).

    'New Style' ESA WRAG will still run out after 52 weeks, at which time you move onto UC.
    'New Style' ESA Support Group does not run out after 52 weeks so stays as 'New Style' ESA for as long as you are in Support Group.

    There is no way that an existing ESA claim can become a 'New Style' ESA claim.
    Only brand new claims (not linked to previous claims) can be 'New Style'.

    Just for completeness - Jobseekers Allowance:
    You can only claim CB JSA for 6 months. So anyone claiming 'Old Style' CB JSA in a full service area will move to UC after those 6 months are up.
    Anyone making a claim for 'New Style' CB JSA is in the same boat, it only lasts for 6 months and then they will move to UC.
    Existing IR JSA will be migrated to UC, again as a 'linked claim' so continuous.

    Things are still a bit more complicated in the Live Service UC areas, but these should dissapear soon.

    PS.
    I mentioned up there the 2008 ESA regulations and the 2013 ESA regulations.
    These are the same, except that the 2013 regulations have had all mention Income Related ESA removed because they only apply to 'New Style' CB ESA.

    For more detailed information about the migration to UC click on the blue text in my signature below.
    Last edited by nukecad; 03-31-2018 at 01:55 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for that nukecad

    i think i am confusing myself

    A person currently on CB ESA SG and in a full service area has to go down MR and tribunal

    While waiting the out come do they

    a) Claim new style JSA and if successful return to old style CB ESA SG if within 6 months

    b ) Claim new style JSA then UC after 6 months. When successful return to old style CB ESA SG

    c) Claim UC from the start then when successful return to old style CB ESA SG

    I hear a lot that if waiting for appeal in full service area, you have to claim UC but then cannot return to ESA even if successful

    and there lies my confusion

    Thanks for your patience with my befuddled brain

    D
    Anything expressed is my opinion only and is offered in good faith. It is either from my own experiance or what I have learned on my journey. Take it for what it is or leave it alone. With best wishes D.

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I understand, it's the MR situation.

    a) Not in a Full Service area.
    The entitlement to CB benefit will (almost certainly) have lapsed.

    b) Same as a).

    c) In a Full Service area you (almost certainly) have to claim UC during MR.
    Once you have a UC claim you cannot go back to a legacy benefit.

    Two things to note are-
    There "almost certainly" going to be very exceptional cases. But they will be exceptional.

    The legal situation with going back to ESA after an appeal is still not clear.
    For now you stay on UC with the equivalent element.
    If you have HB, Child Tax Credit, etc. that also gets migrated to UC then it is clear- you can't go back.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for that, brain felt like a kitten playing with a ball of wool

    D
    Anything expressed is my opinion only and is offered in good faith. It is either from my own experiance or what I have learned on my journey. Take it for what it is or leave it alone. With best wishes D.

  6. #6
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    Ok so another question
    Re transitional payments

    We know that anyone with the premiums has protection when naturally migrated
    This protection will gradually reduce as UC increases until it no longer exists

    Is it the annual increase in the standard allowance that erodes the protection or are the other elements ie. HB and CT also used to erode it ?

    If that make sense
    D
    Anything expressed is my opinion only and is offered in good faith. It is either from my own experiance or what I have learned on my journey. Take it for what it is or leave it alone. With best wishes D.

  7. #7
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    No one is quite sure yet how the Transitional Protection when "Managed Migrated" will work in practice, they are still working out the details.

    It is expected to be the same as the TP from IB to ESA, and so only increases to the Limited Capability element should affect it.
    But nobody is fully sure yet just what the final legislation is going to say.

    One thing is clear -

    You will only get TP with "Managed Migration", ie. when they make you migrate sometime after June/July 2019.

    If you migrate by "Natural Migration" before they make you then you will not get TP.

    "Natural Migration" happens when a change of circumstance means you have to make a NEW CLAIM for an income related benefit in a UC full service area.
    The most common way this happens is if you move house to a different local authority that is full service UC and claim help with your rent, which would have to be UC-housing element. This then means that any other IR benefits you have get 'naturally migrated'.

    It is ONLY if you have to make a NEW IR CLAIM in a full service area that this can happen, any other change of circumstance that does not mean a NEW CLAIM will not trigger natural migration.


    If you have the SDP then you should avoid Natural Migration at all costs, you will lose the SDP and so almost certainly be worse off. wait until you are Managed migrated after June/July 2019 and you will be guaranteed to be no worse off.
    There again if you are in Support Group with EDP but don't have SDP then being naturally migrated can make you £91 a month better off. (One member here has already done this and was quite pleased).
    If migrated from WRAG (without disability premiums) then you will be on about the same money.

    I did some calculations for a single person on different rates of ESA and put the results in a chart, you can see it here:
    http://www.youreable.com/forums/show...l=1#post137494
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-01-2018 at 02:55 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for that, brain was in a fog I meant managed migration. But you have confirmed hat nothing has been agree and the scaremongering is rife. Thanks
    Anything expressed is my opinion only and is offered in good faith. It is either from my own experiance or what I have learned on my journey. Take it for what it is or leave it alone. With best wishes D.

  9. #9
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There is some legislation already about Transitional Provisions (not Protection) that has something to say about legacy benefits, housing benefit etc, and making sure they are not adversely affected by some parts of UC.

    But TBH I've not looked at them closely because I expect them to change once everywhere's full service.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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