Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: RADAR toilets question

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    232

    RADAR toilets question

    My council have decided their going to charge for access to all RADAR toilets in public places (there's one where I live). They've installed timed barriers which block the lock unless you pay 20p to then access it.

    It took months to get it removed in the first place from being inside the block when they decided to charge for it with a massive barrier, which was put there to force people to pay, which then made it inaccessible so they were forced to build another.

    I've complained and got the following response:

    "Due to loss of revenue and complaints about discrimination we have no choice but to charge for use of these facilities. It is discrimination for disabled people to have access to facilities everyone else must pay for. The barrier will move by itself from the lock in a timely manner so there is no block to access and no reason why the toilets wont remain part of the RADAR scheme"

    So basically they want the cash, but I wondered if they could remain part of the scheme if people must pay for access as well as the key. Not to mention that the lock itself is to be blocked by an automatic barrier which will lock again if you can't get your key in time and get in. There's been a lot of bad press about lack of radar toilet availability hence the mention about them remaining part of the scheme, there are very very few available.

    My county councillor is the idiot behind this so no use asking them for help.

    I thought RADAR toilets couldn't be charged for and needed to be kept accessible and that was the point of the key.

    Obviously I intend to reply, anyone got any ideas? I'm getting nowhere!

  2. #2
    Senior Member phaedra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    892
    Your councillor sounds like a complete pratt, what an absolutely stupid idea. Radar toilets are (for about 99% of them) a safe, clean and accessible place so those of us with disabilities can have a little improvement to our quality of life.

    I picked up my daughter at Durham train station on Saturday and had to use the loo while I was waiting (train was late, again!), luckily there's a radar toilet next to the platform, I've tried using the "normal" toilets there and it's just not physically possible.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    232
    I'm struggling to reply without using the word prat!

    I just can't see how they can possibly charge for this facility. The barrier isn't large - it literally blocks access to the lock, but I didn't think you could do this, as it is obviously a barrier, I've been trying to find information about it but haven't got anywhere yet. The collection box sticks out from the wall making it difficult to manoeuvre in (it was never easy in a wheelchair anyway as its a 90 degree angle). They must have spent a fortune on this device (which means it'll be hard to stop them charging).

    This is not a nice toilet they tend to use it for storing cleaning stuff for the other toilets in the block and don't clean it so it smells awful but no choice but to use it. People have complained and it changes for a few weeks then back to the way it was.

    The other toilets have turnstiles which the council expected disabled people to be able to manage because it's just a little push and walk inside (hence taking months to get them moved!)

    I also rather annoyed as i found a letter on the council website whilst searching for RADAR which bought up the recommendation that keys were purchased for all taxi drivers to enable them to use a toilet during the night because otherwise it impacts on their job (suggested by a taxi driver). I've complained about that as well but no response except the article is now showing as 'page not found'. I printed one out so that's not going to work!

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    192
    There is actually no legal requirement for councils to provide toilets.

    However, under the 1976 Local Government Act, Councils can provide them if they deem them to be needed in places of entertainment and "other relevant" places.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,825
    This may not be popular - but I don't see that charging for the toilets is a problem, as long as it is the same charge as for other toilets at the site.

    As their response says; giving you something for free that others have to pay for could be seen as reverse discrimination. Just as charging you extra could be seen as such.

    The National Key Scheme is simply a voluntary way of discouraging general use, it is not enforcible and does not give you any extra rights.
    Anybody can buy a RADAR key. (You should be disabled but do not have to prove that you are).
    If accessible toilets for disabled people do have to be locked, providers are asked to join the NKS, which involves fitting standard locks to their toilets and making keys available to disabled people.
    So supplying taxi drivers, etc. with them would not be illegal, remember the scheme is voluntary so it's up to the council / toilet owner to decide who can use their (locked) facilities..

    I believe the phrase is that the toilets are "suitably adapted" for disabled persons, not "exclusively" for disabled persons.

    Suitably adapted facilities do not have to have a NKS/radar key, many don't.
    Many are dual purpose and also include baby changing facilities.
    Some places use their own key scheme. (And charge for the keys).

    However if the pay equipment that they have fitted actually prevents you from using a key by making it too dificult then that is a different matter; that could be disability discrimination.
    (Just as it sounds the original barriers that you mention were).

    P.S.
    The RADAR scheme is no longer called that, it's the National Key Scheme.
    https://nks.directenquiries.com/nks/...Scheme&level=2

    The "R.A.D.A.R. Key Company" still makes keys.
    https://www.radarkey.org/
    RADAR no longer exists and now that we have refused to renew our agreement to supply keys to DRUK, we are free to provide many long overdue improvements to the National Key Scheme which we were not able to achieve before.
    Last edited by nukecad; 02-04-18 at 17:21.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    232
    Don't worry about not being popular! Its not a problem.

    I think the issues are that there is nowhere to get radar keys from here for free, tourist information and shopmobility closed years ago so already they cannot be accessed by anyone without a key. The charge is the same (though there are many many more accessible toilets - I had a look at my local town today and there are two RADAR toilets whereas there are 40 including over a half which are free that are inaccessible and there will be no free radar toilets), but that's on top of needing to pay for a key and you need to be able to use your hands fast enough to be able to pay, get your key, open the door and get in before the barrier goes back into place (and as I have dexterity problems that's a massive issue for me) preventing closing the door.

    Thanks for the information about NKS!

  7. #7
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,825
    I've never been that worried about being popular myself, it was the answer that I thought may not be.

    you need to be able to use your hands fast enough to be able to pay, get your key, open the door and get in before the barrier goes back into place (and as I have dexterity problems that's a massive issue for me) preventing closing the door.
    That is a genuine complaint then, maybe you should concentrate on getting the operation time extended. (Which should be a simple enough setting in the mechanism).

    But I'm afraid that the extra cost of a key is not down to the council, it's a voluntary national key scheme to help to keep undesirables out of accesible toilets.

    Unless of course the council start using their own keys instead of the NKS ones, and start charging extra for them.
    Lincoln did just that recently, note that the "key" talked about here is a 'credit card' style electronic key, not a NKS/radar key.
    (So you can't use your NKS/radar key at Lincoln bus station).
    https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2018/02/...n-bus-station/
    In order to maintain these facilities in a good condition and ensure they are available for those who have genuine need for them, a modern card system is being used instead of the typical RADAR key system.

    We appreciate that the one-off £5 charge for the card can appear expensive, but we make no profit from them due to the technology required within the card. Also, the cost is comparable with that of a RADAR key.
    Last edited by nukecad; 02-04-18 at 23:38.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    232
    I know the feeling! Thanks for your thoughts.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    295
    Some disabilities cause the individual to need to use the facilities more frequently. Therefore if it is a flat rate per use, these people have to pay more, which is discrimination. They could reduce the fee for disabled users to compensate. This is the equivalent of some car park that do charge for disabled users giving more time for the same money.

  10. #10
    Senior Member sea queen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,373
    Are the other toilets payable?
    Sea Queen

Similar Threads

  1. NKS Radar keys
    By David69 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 16-07-17, 18:39
  2. Toilets only for who?
    By nukecad in forum News and general discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 15-10-16, 12:12
  3. Have I put myself on radar esa
    By jan1963 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-07-16, 21:34
  4. Toilets in Scarborough
    By sea queen in forum Travel - help & advice on holidays and accessible travel for disabled people
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-08-13, 17:35
  5. Disabled Toilets
    By justabean in forum Ask a question about equipment
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 28-07-13, 21:28

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •