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Thread: Starting a new job but what if...

  1. #21
    I just wanted to add here, with tax credits, it was so easy. If you couldn't do the job, you could make a rapid reclaim, provided it was within the 12 weeks, and no questions were asked, no evidence asked to be provided. With Universal Credit, it is all about getting people to work, increase their hours, get more money, etc, etc, which is why I doubt very much they would just 'accept' someone leaving a job. It wouldn't be like tax credits, and that could mean a reassessment, but at the very least, questions asked and evidence (probably from a doctor) required. Even if you do have health problems. Even if you were half dead and working with your eyes shut because you could hardly open them. I don't think they would let someone off the hook. It makes me laugh (actually conversely, very sad) as I tried to do all this just for an extra £78 a week, to work a highly stressful job. When corrupt politicians steal thousands and get awarded a knighthood at the House of Lords!

  2. #22
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I'm sure that most of those on ESA WRAG who attempt work will endeavour to stay below the 16 hour/min wage permitted work limits, precisely to avoid the situation of moving to UC.

    I guess anyone considering more than 16 hours will be put off, as you were.

    It's one of those funny things that can happen at the moment because UC law doesn't realy recognise that other IR benefits exist.
    Once everyone is on UC these strange situations will dissapear.

    As for the working whilst claiming Limited Capability, it is Limited Capability not Zero Capability.
    ESA recognises this with the Permitted Work rules, UC just takes it further and lets you work longer hours and for more money.

    TBH since April 2017 making a claim for Limited Capability for Work with UC does not give you any financial advantage over a fully able jobseeker, it just limits your Claimant Commitment and cuts down what they can mandate you to do or sanction you for.
    (If you had LCW before April 2017 you still get the extra money, and Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity with UC still gives more).

    I still don't believe that it would be a problem giving up work in these circumstances, you would still be in the LCW group even though attempting work, and so would have 'good reason' for doing so - it was beyond your limited capabilities.
    It's if you were not in the LCW that giving up work would be a problem.

    But yes, it's always a problem when considering working just how that will be seen at your next assessment.
    It all depends on if what you are doing contradicts what you say your (in)capabilities are.

    We'll see what happens with the FoI, the DWP are masters at delaying, confusing, obscuring, and outright refusing answers.
    You have to word requests carefully so as not to give them an excuse to refuse, or only answer with something you didn't ask for.
    And you should have a bit of knowledge of what grounds they can or can't refuse to answer.
    It can be a good game if you have the patience.

    Shame you had to turn down the job, but from what you say then it does not sound as if it would have been suitable for you.

    Better luck finding something suitable in the future. But I would try and keep it below the PW limits to avoid UC until we all get migrated.
    Last edited by nukecad; 12-05-18 at 12:38.
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  3. #23
    Thank you nukecad, it has been so good talking with you And thank you again for your support, much appreciated.

  4. #24
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There has been a reply to that FoI.

    Not very helpful, it just points to 'ADM chapter K1'

    Reading that if you have LCW/LCWRA, try work and have to give it up, then they can't sanction you.

    As usual it does not state this implicitly, you have to work it out from a couple of different chapters and notes.

    I'll post more with the chapter references and a fuller explanation when I get back to the laptop.
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-06-18 at 20:02.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Here's the more detailed explanation from my reading of the ADM K1 guidance.

    K1020, point 4, says that a Higher Level sanction is raised against a claimant who "by reason of misconduct, or voluntarily and for no good reason, ceases paid work or loses pay".

    BUT

    K1009 says Higher Level sanctions can only be applied to the 'All Work Related Requirements' group.

    Just to note that-
    K1021 says that those in the "No Work Related Requirement group due to earnings" will immediately be transfered to the AWRR group if they voluntarily give up work.
    However- Note 1 clearly explains that this only applies to those who are in NWRR because of earnings above their earnings threashold. So if you are in NWRR group because of LCWRA this does not apply.

    Work Preparation group (LCW), and Work focused interview group (carers, etc.) are not mentioned at all, but K1009 would rule out a Higher Level sanction for these groups.

    So all in all if you are not in the 'All Work Related Requirements' group, because you have LCW or LCWRA, then you cannot be given a sanction if you attempt work but have to give it up.
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-06-18 at 20:20.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Lighttouch's Avatar
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    DLA and PIP are not means-tested and you can get it whether in or out of work.

    Now once you open the doors to work there's another benefit - it's the Governments best kept secret - any ideas.

  7. #27
    Thank you nukecad, all you have done is very helpful. Really appreciate it.
    But (there has to be one, doesn't there?) they couldn't answer properly, could they? Too much bother to answer a specific question, and though I also looked through the document and I agree with what you say, I am still super wary. Need someone who has actually experienced it, I think. Then we will know for absolute sure.
    They are about to stop my DLA and reassess me for PIP so I am glad now that I didn't do the job (despite that benefit being different) because I still think that if they ask you at the assessment what you do all day, and you say work sometimes, it disadvantages you. Just the way their minds work. I'd rather safely have PIP before I try for a job over 16 hours. And course, jobs under? Hardly any where I live. So it is very depressing. Thanks again nukecad.
    Not too sure what Lighttouch is asking here, as we were only referring to UC.

  8. #28
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by star2sparkle View Post
    they couldn't answer properly, could they? Too much bother to answer a specific question,
    That's the fun of FoI's to the DWP.

    Getting them to give a straight answer, an answer relevent to your request, or sometimes any answer at all, takes patience and some skill in the wording of your request.

    If they spent as much effort in answering as they do in avoiding answers then it would reflect a bit better on them.

    They are scared of getting caught lying, as they were when they told the W&P Select Committee they didn't have certain figures but gave those same figures to a Press Association FoI.

    I expect to have to make at least one request for internal review on every request to get some kind of FoI answer that is even meaningful these days.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  9. #29
    Senior Member Lighttouch's Avatar
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    I claimed Mobility High rate for DLA and worked in the private and public sector - it's not an issue if it's an office type job.

    I wouldn't have been able to work without a car. If you are unable to use public transport to get to work 'Access to Work' will offer you a taxi service to get there and back home.

  10. #30
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