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Thread: Upper Tribunal Permission to appeal Query

  1. #11
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I wouldn't expect the UT judge to go that far.

    You have to remember that he is only ruling on whether the FTT followed the law properly or not.
    He is not realy ruling on what any assessor/DM said and has no real need to look at that or say anything about it.
    The assessorss, the DMs, and your evidence is the FTTs job not usually the UTT.

    A full statement takes longer because it needs writing then typing up on the correct forms and entering into the court records system. (And they are usually published as well - for other judges to refer to in future).
    Last edited by nukecad; 06-23-2018 at 03:27 PM.
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  2. #12
    UPDATE!

    Well I have received the Upper Tribunals decision, They have referred it back to a New First Tier Tribunal.

    In the judges reasons for decision, She mentions the inadequacy of the firsts tier tribunals reasoning for activity 1 and also mentions that I have highlighted arguable flaws in the treatment of activities 2,3,4,and 6.

    The Judge also mentions the letter from the Autism specialist that was disregarded and has said it would be helpful if this could be elaborated on.

    I have now got a letter from The Autism/ADHD team which goes into much more detail, so hopefully it will succeed at the next Tribunal.

    The wait goes on..........

  3. #13
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    As expected then; back to another FTT.

    At least this time they will have the UT judges' direction on what to consider and how.

    And of course your new letter should be a great help, it seems just what she was asking for and she has specifically told them to consider it.
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  4. #14
    A couple of questions Nukecad,

    Do You have any idea how long it might be to hear from the new Tribunal, and secondly, My Son has moved in with Me and no longer lives any where near where the original tribunal took place. The Upper Tribunal were notified of this so do not know if it is passed on.

  5. #15
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Sorry I've no idea about timescales.
    Hopefully as it's coming down from the UT it should be quicker?

    When I had my tribunal they first set it for the wrong place (different town same name).
    Gave HMCT a ring and they sorted it quickly to a local venue.

    At least you know it will be a different judge/panel this time.
    Last edited by nukecad; 07-31-2018 at 04:50 PM.
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  6. #16
    UPDATE!!

    After 132 weeks and 1 day My Sons new first tier appeal was heard today!. After being grilled for 3 hours!! with one comfort break ( The judges words ) My Son has been awarded Standard Daily Living and Standard Mobility.

    We had a representative from the DWP Secretary of state office present, Who opened the proceedings with the statement That the process so far had been Farcical ( His words! ) and The DWP Were prepared to offer 11 points but thought that the Budgeting descriptor needed to be discussed as this was not part of the points and He felt that the evidence merited points. Great I thought as this is one of My Sons biggest problems!

    However the Judge then says, If You are willing to accept the 11 points and standard care then We can end the appeal now.
    I pointed out that complex budgeting was one of the most difficult activities for My Son and agreed with the DWP rep that it should be explored further.
    The Judge then informs Me that We will look at the whole award and may remove points!

    I gave permission to carry on with the appeal as after this amount of time I was not prepared for My Sons difficulties to be ignored again ( And there was tons of evidence including a DRO for £14000!

    The Judge then says We can adjourn today and come back another day, again I said no, this whole process has been incredibly stresssful for My Son and We wanted a result today, So fast forward 3 hours and Standard care and standard mobility given ( They had removed points from some activities and given extra for others! )

    However!! The award is only for 3 years! This means its end date is September 2019, only 5 months away.

    I asked the DWP Rep How is this going to affect My Son being reviewed as usually You get at least 6 months to a year to enable the process to go through, He said He didn't know!

    The whole process is a complete farce! I will now have to wait for the official decision letter and hope the DWP have increased the award length to enable time for a proper review to be carried out!

    But thank God it has ended for now!

  7. #17
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    So the DWP Presenting Officer actually said it had been a farce and that he thought the DWP hadn't awarded enough points.
    That seems a strange thing for him to have done, it's going against his own bosses.
    Maybe the PO's are getting fed up with being told to defend obviously incorrect, undefendable, decisions?

    Looks like the judge knew what the likely outcome would be if they looked at everything again and was trying to save your son the stress.
    But I understand you wanting to get it done fully rather than just accepting the DWPs offer, hope your son coped with it OK.

    He should now be due a wodge of backpay.

    Pity about the 3 year award and the whole tribunal process taking most of those 3 years, but I'm not sure that it can be changed now.
    Possibly the DWP Decision Maker can make it longer that the court has recommended, depending on just how the court words it, but would they?

    Unlike the ESA guidance the PIP guidance about award lengths says nothing about tribunals.

    PIP is different from ESA where reassessment/review dates are concerend.
    An ESA award is 'ongoing' until a new decision is made, so the reassessment date can be easily moved about.
    A PIP award on the other hand has a definite, fixed, end date. That date comes and your PIP stops.
    (Which is why they start reviews a year before the old PIP award runs out).
    Every PIP review decision is actually a new award of PIP for a new fixed time.

    The different words they use - 'reassessment' for ESA as opposed to 'review' for PIP - points up that they are different processes.

    So I would expect a new review form any time soon, if you are lucky it will be the short form AR1 and not a full PIP2.
    If/when it comes I would include a copy of the latest tribunal decision making a point of the date (shouldn't make a difference but might do), with luck they'll do a paper only review.
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-12-2019 at 12:46 PM.
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  8. #18
    Hi Nukecad,

    To be honest I would have accepted the DWP offer of 11 points and standard care, If not for the fact it did not include points for complex budgeting. Which is one of the most relevant difficulties My Son has.

    But He ended up with a better award money wise with standard care and standard mobility, However It still galls Me having to accept the award when the points given for daily living are not as relevant as they should be. I was never going for enhanced care But I did want the correct points for the relevant descriptors!

    and Yes He is due for a large back pay of over £10000 for the PIP and for a period of 7 months when He was in receipt of income support as a single person during 2017/2018 He should have had the SDP and Disability premium added so thats approx £3000.

    I have tried to explain to Him this may take a few weeks to sort out.

    Just have to wait for the oficial Decision Letter and see if they have added a year to allow for review Which would still mean review from September, or if left as it is it will be reassessment about 14 weeks before the end which will be June!

    But as You say there is very up to date evidence now so hopefully wont have to go through all of this again!

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