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Thread: Back dated IRESA top-up of CBESA

  1. #1

    Back dated IRESA top-up of CBESA

    Hi folks,

    Firstly, my congratulations on having such a helpful and frirndly forum for the people that have problems with the (still) complex welfare system!

    Now that I am a member I will try to help others in the forum when I have relevent exprience with questions they post.

    My queries concern back payment of IRESA for someone transfered from IB to CBESA without possible IRESA premiums being taken into account as a top-up at the time of changeover.

    My father has been unable to work after an accident in 1989 and is classed as severely mentally impaired. He is also severely physically disabled as a result of the accident.
    He was changed over from IB to CBESA in March 2013 and was put in the support group as there is zero possibility of him ever being able to work again.
    He has been re-assessed for ESA once since then and remains on CBESA in the support group.
    Last week the DWP wrote to him saying they need to look at his claim again to see if he is also eligible for IRESA premiums.
    They also sent form ESA(IBR) to complete and return to them.

    As some of you will no doubt know it is a heck of a long form, so I have done some research to see if he will qualify for the extra premiums before I put a lot of work into doing the form for him.
    I have tried 4 different online benefit calculators & all 4 results say he will not get extra premiums (which would be enhanced disability & severe disability in his case) because he also gets 80% IIDB & his CBESA has quite a large transitional top-up anyway.
    However, I do not think the calculators take into account the premiums that should have been paid when people were changed from IB to CBESA. They are for new claims I assume. So, I don't know if the same rules apply for IBESA top-ups Of CBESA as they do for new IBESA applications alone. Thus I am not too sure that the online calculators are correct in this situation.

    I've tried ringing several organisations that advise on benefits, but they have been unable to help.Sadly CAB has gone over the cliff with benefit advice in my area and were no help at all! So hopefully one (or more) of you may be able to assist me please.

    He is 64 years old. He gets £152.15 a week CBESA, £139.84 a week IIDB (80%) and £145.35 a week PIP (enhanced rate of both Daily Living and Mobility). He has no other income apart from a few £ interest the generous bank gives him on his little savings once a year!
    He has received IIDB @ 80% since before his change to CBESA & is still ongoing. He got middle rate of daily living and lower rate mobility DLA since before his change to CBESA up until September 2018 when he was changed over to PIP at both enhanced rates.
    He lives alone and none of his carers are eligible for a DWP Carer's Allowance. He has not had savings over £4000 at any time from when he was put on CBESA.
    He may be eligible for a little Housing Benefit, but his landlord is touchy about benefits, so not worth claiming against the risk of him losing his accomodation....

    Therefore, it appears to me that it will be a total waste of time (of which I have very little) for me to complete the ESA(IBR) form as he will not get any of the IBESA top-up premiums.

    I'd be most grateful for help with the following questions:-

    1) Does anyone think differently to my conclusion that it will be a fruitless exercise please?
    2) It says in the letter accompanying the form that I can phone them up and decline them doing the IRESA top-up calculation.
    a) Will it be acceptable to the DWP for me to do this for the reason "I know it will be a worthless exercise"?
    b) Is there any possibility of him losing any or parts of his benefits if I do not complete & send back the ESA(IBR) form?
    3) If I am mistaken and he will get IRESA premiums on top of his CBESA does it mean he will then have to move on to UC as he will then be getting an IRESA element in his benefits or will he remain on CBESA with the IRESA premium top-ups until his retirement or a "change in his circumstances" occurs before then?

    He lives in a full UC area & I am afraid he will lose a great deal of benefit if I apply for the IRESA premiums and as a result then gets moved over to UC. The online calculators say he will be £150+ per week worse off on UC as IIDB is treated as income whereas it is disregarded on CBESA!!!

    As you all know the benefit system is a complete minefield with books & books of rules. As I deal with the DWP on behalf of my father, I am very worried he will lose out on this reassessment if I do not do the right things.

    I would be most grateful if anyone can help me out with this & hope this post will be of use to others.

    Kind regards to all,

  2. #2
    I agree with your calculations that your dad would not be eligible for an income based top up as his IIDB, which is counted as income, would rule them out and he would revert to his contribution based ESA and keep the IIDB.

    As an aside, if he was eligible for an income based top up then this would not mean a move to Universal Credit as it would not be a new claim.

    If you did not complete then his benefits would remain the same.

    Since it gives you the option to telephone and decline then this is an option.

    I can't think of any downsides to this as long as it is documented on his 'file' that you contacted them and declined to be assessed.

    I do not know much about IIDB but if there is any possibility that he could lose this or it was reduced in the future then it might be worth completing the form so that the information could be used in any future change of circumstances.

    Personally I would complete the form just to prevent any further communication from the DWP regarding this and also because it would ensure a double check of the figures (I say this not because I don't trust your figures but because I am always a bit loathe to advice on calculations without seeing the paperwork!)

    Do wait for someone else to give their view point and double check the calculations.
    I try my best

  3. #3
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    I agree that the IIDB payment would be counted as income and so stop any IR ESA entitlement being paid.

    But- just having the entitlement on it's own can be worth the slight effort of doing the ESA3.

    Having that entitlement can 'passport' to other things, free prescriptions, dental treatment etc, housing benefit (but I see you don't want that), Warm Home Discount, and other such schemes.

    I'm not sure if he already gets all those with the IIDB?

    For the sake of a bit of form filling why not just do it anyway and see what the DWP come back with?
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  4. #4
    Giving some threads a bump!

  5. #5
    Thank you kindly for your most helpful replies pmlindyloo & nukecad.

    I can see the logic in completing the form now after your comments and so will have to find the time to do so!

    I greatly appreciate you both for taking the time and effort to gives answers to my queries.

    Kind regards,

  6. #6
    It isn't only the IIDB that needs to be considered here, from what you've said above it also appears your father is receiving an hefty amount of TP (Transitional Protection) on his ESA (approx £42) over and above the CB ESA Support Group payment which is approx £110 odd. This together with the full amount of IIDB will be considered in any application for Income Related payment(s).

    Incidentally, you cannot qualify for an Income Related "Entitlement" without receiving an Income Related payment, though even a payment of one penny (1p) would provide such an "Entitlement".
    Last edited by Jard; 11-26-2018 at 04:21 PM.

  7. #7
    The DWP have a service where they do the form for you, in my view this is a lot less hassle, and also means you dont need to post it back, but instead just sign a declaration they send to you in the post.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by worried33 View Post
    The DWP have a service where they do the form for you, in my view this is a lot less hassle, and also means you dont need to post it back, but instead just sign a declaration they send to you in the post.
    Yes they do have this service but in my experience try to refrain from using it. I used it for my initial claim which was refused. When I learnt more about benefits ( I was initially completely ignorant about them) I used a WRO from our local county council who, on seeing the paperwork, said they had done me no favours at all.
    After all it is the DWP so you really can't expect them to help you access the benefits you are entitled to

  9. #9
    On my declaration I could read what was put on the form so I knew what I was signing for.

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