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Thread: Natural Migration now Blocked for those with SDP.

  1. #1
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Natural Migration now Blocked for those with SDP.

    The regulations blocking the Natural Migration to Universal Credit of those with SDP have now been made law.

    As from the 16th of January 2019 anyone who has SDP can no longer claim Universal Credit but are still able to claim Legacy Benefits instead.
    If you have SDP don't make a new claim for an IR benefit today or tomorrow.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/10/made

    This is only the block on migration and does not include the payment of compensation/TP for those who have already migrated and lost their SDP, that will be included in the Managed Migration legislation still to be passed (later this month?).

    EDIT- Also see post #4 below for interesting information about how this affects MRs and Appeals.

    EDIT2- See this about making a new claim for HB if you have SDP:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...204#post153204
    Last edited by nukecad; 01-16-2019 at 04:17 PM.
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  2. #2
    That's great news.

    Does this mean people on ESA who receive SDP, can now move home to a full UC service area, without fear of having to switch to UC, and lose their SDP? So they would still be allowed to claim Housing Benefit, as opposed to UC? Or would they still need to move to UC for the Housing Benefit part? But have their income paid via ESA instead of UC? Sorry if what I said makes no sense.

    I really want to move homes to be closer to my family, but I couldn't do it before, because of the change of circumstances rule, and losing my Enhanced Premium and SDP by moving over to UC.

  3. #3
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Yes as from Wednesday if you have SDP then you can't claim UC at all, and so are allowed to claim 'Legacy' benefits, including Housing Benefit, instead.

    So even if you move home to a different Local Authority you will still be able to make a new claim for HB with them.

    This new law is all about stopping the loss of SDP when moving to UC.

    You will still at sometime in future be Managed Migrated to UC, but that will then come with Transitional Protection so you won't get less money.
    Last edited by nukecad; 01-14-2019 at 03:50 PM.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I've just re-read the regulations and there is an interesting, unexpected, clause.

    Somebody has thought about it and got it right for once.

    Restriction on claims for universal credit by persons entitled to a severe disability premium

    4A. No claim may be made for universal credit on or after 16th January 2019 by a single claimant who, or joint claimants either of whom—

    (a)is, or has been within the past month, entitled to an award of an existing benefit that includes a severe disability premium; and

    (b)in a case where the award ended during that month, has continued to satisfy the conditions for eligibility for a severe disability premium.
    That clause (b) is the unexpected one, because it covers more than just Natural Migrations.

    It is saying that if you have SDP and you lose your benefit you cannot claim Universal Credit at all for a month.

    So say you lose ESA because of a Fit-for-Work decision, then you can reclaim IR ESA instead of UC as long as you reclaim within a month of the decision (Of course you would also need to show a new or deteriorated condition to make a new ESA claim).

    But, more importantly, it also means that in that FFW case, while waiting for an MR decision, you would have to claim IR JSA (with SDP) instead of UC, and thus could still go back to ESA once your appeal is lodged.

    In fact as it is worded it says that if you had ESA with SDP then you would have to claim IR JSA (with SDP) instead of UC after a FFW, even if you are not going for MR/appeal.


    (Now I need to go and update things in my 'migration sticky' thread).
    Last edited by nukecad; 01-14-2019 at 04:25 PM.
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  5. #5
    That's great and solves a lot of problems for me. Thanks for explaining it.

    I'm hoping UC will be scrapped before I'm asked to move over. Even with the Transitional Protection, I don't trust UC, the Tories will find new ways to screw the sick and disabled over with, later down the line. Hopefully there will be a General Election soon, and Jeremy Corbyn will create a more humane benefits system.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    UC will not be 'scrapped', there are too many people already on it to just scrap it.

    I think the best you could hope for is a stop of all Migrations.
    That would take scrapping the proposed Managed Migration altogether, and then short legislation to extend that block on SDP migration to all existing claimants.

    You then still have the problem of what to do with all those already claiming UC?
    Leave them on UC and run 2 benefits systems? Or 'reverse-migrate' them to legacy benefits? (Not forgetting that some would lose money if you did that, and that they would have to make multiple new benefit claims).
    All you have done is change who is going to get migrated, as well as making that reverse-migration more complicated.

    Legacy benefits were complicated for a reason - peoples circumstances are complicated, and the benefit system had evolved over time to reflect that.
    Trying to simplify it was never going to work, because peoples circumstances just aren't simple, we don't fit in nice neat boxes.
    Peoples circumstances are still complicated, and UC will also have to evolve to reflect that complication.
    Last edited by nukecad; 01-14-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    But, more importantly, it also means that in that FFW case, while waiting for an MR decision, you would have to claim IR JSA (with SDP) instead of UC, and thus could still go back to ESA once your appeal is lodged.

    In fact as it is worded it says that if you had ESA with SDP then you would have to claim IR JSA (with SDP) instead of UC after a FFW, even if you are not going for MR/appeal.
    I have some more questions regarding this, if you don't mind? As this could be in the situation I'm in soon (hopefully not).

    I currently receive ESA with Enhanced Disability and SDP. If I fail my ESA Work Capability Reassessment. My understanding is I will be without any ESA, Enhanced Disability and SDP money during the MR. After the MR has concluded, if I fail this, I would then apply to the Tribunal, at which point I would start receiving ESA at the assessment rate, alongside Enhanced Disability and SDP money, all the way up to the Tribunal date. If I win my Tribunal. I would then be back dated the difference between the ESA assessment rate and the ESA support group rate. Also, I would received back dated money for the one month MR period. Can you tell me if my understanding is right here? Also, do you know when the ESA assessment rate kicks back in after the MR decision? Does this automatically happen after the MR has concluded? Or does it only happen once they receive your Tribunal appeal?

    My plan was to take out a loan from my parents for the MR month, instead of switching to a new benefit, as I'm worried how confusing it would be to do that. My big main concern is how long I will be without any ESA money, from the moment the ESA money stops after a failed Work Capability Reassessment, until the ESA assessment rate kicks back in.

    My understanding of what you said, is I don't need to take out a loan for the MR period. Instead I can claim IR JSA with the disability premiums added to it. Can I ask how difficult that it is? And how long from making the claim, would I started receiving money? Would they do it over the phone? Or would I need to go in and see them? Also, how difficult would it be to move back to ESA after winning the Tribunal? Or would they automatically do this for you? Sorry for lots of questions, but these are the concerns I have about failing my ESA reassessment. I'm hoping I don't, as I passed last time without problems. I may have just gotten lucky, with a more compassionate assessor.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    As you say this is all speculation on your being found FFW, that probably won't happen.

    The wording of that legislation means that as from Wednesday if you are found FFW then you have to claim IR JSA, which will have disability premiums added.
    https://www.gov.uk/disability-premiu...rt/eligibility

    This is taking things back to the same as the situation before Universal Credit, but only for those who have SDP.

    That brings an interesting situation, which one member here actually used a few years ago.

    You can stay on JSA with the Disability Premiums right up until the appeal is heard, rather than going back onto ESA which would only pay assessment rate.
    Is the extra money staying on JSA as opposed to assessment rate ESA worth a bit of jobsearching? (Also remembering that you can have 13 weeks 'extended sickness' on JSA without the need to jobseek).

    As to your other questions then yes ESA plus any component/premiums would be backpaid if you won at appeal. (Including for the MR period).
    Of course any money you had already been paid as JSA and premiums would be deducted from that backpayment.
    As would any ESA assessment rate if you have gone back onto ESA pending appeal.

    If you didn't claim anything during the MR then ESA assessment rate for that period would be backpaid as soon as you went back onto ESA.

    If you do want to go back onto ESA pending appeal then you have to wait until the DWP have notice from the court that your appeal has been lodged.
    You then have to ask to go back onto ESA, it is not automatic.

    Also remember that as with any new legislation it will take a while for this new law to filter through to the 'front line' so expect them (especially the phone jockeys) not to know that the rules have changed for a month or so.
    It's also going to be interesting with the Local Authorities regarding new claims for Housing Benefit for a while. Some of them may have already removed their new HB claims systems.

    Are you due for a reassessment anytime soon?
    Last edited by nukecad; 01-14-2019 at 05:17 PM.
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  9. #9
    Thanks again for your replies. I hope it won't happen. But I always like to prepare for the worst when dealing with the DWP.

    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    You can stay on JSA with the Disability Premiums right up until the appeal is heard, rather than going back onto ESA which would only pay assessment rate.
    Is the extra money staying on JSA as opposed to assessment rate ESA worth a bit of jobsearching? (Also remembering that you can have 13 weeks 'extended sickness' on JSA without the need to jobseek).
    I think I recall reading somewhere, that it's not only with JSA you can get the extra Disability Premiums, while you wait for the Tribunal, but you can also get ESA assessment rate plus premiums too, while waiting for the Tribunal. Is that not possible? Not getting the premiums whilst waiting for the Tribunal, would obviously be a big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    If you didn't claim anything during the MR then ESA assessment rate for that period would be backpaid as soon as you went back onto ESA.
    Just to check. This would be back paid on receipt of DWP having notice of my appeal court being lodged to the Tribunal? So I wouldn't have to wait until after winning the Tribunal, to get that one month back dated? I would just get that one month of money right away? That's very helpful if correct. I had thought I'd just be one month out of pocket all the way to the Tribunal.

    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    If you do want to go back onto ESA pending appeal then you have to wait until the DWP have notice from the court that your appeal has been lodged.
    You then have to ask to go back onto ESA, it is not automatic.
    I will probably end up going for this option. As I want to keep things simple. Without the need to change back and forth between JSA and ESA. Regarding the asking them, to be put back onto ESA. Can this be done over the phone via their call centre? Or would I actually need to go in for a face to face interview?

    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Are you due for a reassessment anytime soon?
    Unfortunately yes, next week. My last reassessment was pretty much 18 months ago. I passed that with little prep, giving same kind of answers that I do for my PIP. I only began looking into online help after I failed my last two PIP reassessments. I won everything back both times at Tribunal. I'm glad that at my most recent PIP Tribunal, they extended the length of the award from 3 years, to 5, which is basically 4yrs, as I believe they always reassess 1 year before the end of the review, at which point I'll be going through the same merry go round all over again.

    I've learned so much about the DWP's dishonesty and dirty tactics over the last year. Forums like this, Scope and Benefits & Work have been invaluable help. Even though it's caused me a tremendous amount of stress going through the appeals processes. I'm glad I've learned all this new information. Also it's nice to find out you're not alone in going through these problems. I always feel happy reading Tribunal or MR success threads.

    I haven't had any problems with ESA reassessments so far, I'm one for one i.e. I've been to one reassessment and passed it with little preparation. I'm doing a lot more preparation this time, however, I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, perhaps over preparing could be a problem in and of itself. I hope not. I requested audio recording. I really hope they don't screw me over and not allow this. I know they can still screw you over even with the recording. However, I do believe that it helps a lot in holding the assessor to account, if it comes to that. When you've been through the appeals process so many times, you get the feeling that the world is against you sometimes, when in reality it's all by design i.e. the evil Tory govt and their Atos/Maximus minions. DWP staff shouldn't be allowed to wash their hands of all the deaths and suicides either. Hopefully when the next Labour govt comes into power, there will be a full public inquest into the last 10yrs of Tory Welfare Reforms. Some Ministers, Atos/Maximus Health Professionals and DWP staff deserve to go to jail for what they've done. Simply put, what they've done is orchestrate an ethnic cleansing of the British poor and disabled, they're pure evil, no other way of describing them.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Premiums while on assesment rate are problematical.
    It's not clear and needs at least a UT court case to clarify it.
    That hasn't happened yet as far as I know, so I wouldn't bank on them being paid.
    Like yourself I've seen some get them and others not.

    Backpay for the MR period will (should) be paid at assessment rate once you go back onto ESA while waiting for appeal.

    You can ask over the phone, once you get notification from the court then give the DWP a week or so before ringing.

    Don't overthink things.
    Don't start quoting law on an ESA50.
    Just tell how you live/manage everyday.

    That's worked for you so far, don't change a winning strategy.

    PS. It's not malicious; simply ignorance and 'only doing what my job says'; which can be worse than intent.
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