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Thread: Move from ESA to UC

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by breadliner View Post
    Hi again, I spoke to UC and informed them of "The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014" Regulation 19 re: migration of ESA SG to Universal Credit LCW or LCWRA (not sure which would apply to me).

    I had a WCA with ESA last month of which I've heard nothing.

    I was informed by the UC person that I had 'failed' the WCA** although I still haven't been informed of this by the ESA people (more than a month after the assessment!). I've spoken with ESA on several occasions and they didn't inform me of this.

    **According to the UC person, who suddenly had access to my notes, I got 0 points in spite of my supporting paperwork and Dr's letter. It's like nothing that was declared or discussed in the assessment had any relevance.

    As it stands, my ESA award is still valid and I'm due to receive UC, which will be adjusted to reflect the current ongoing ESA award.

    The UC lady advised me, for the time being, to get a sicknote from the Dr. and then a WCA could be arranged for me to apply for UC-LCW or UC-LCWRA. It states in my UC journal that I have to declare a fit note though it doesn't state 'by this date'.

    Needless to say, I'm confused and don't wish to go for another assessment.
    ongoing award??? by what you have said there is no ongong award as UC have found out you failed but i expect ESA sent results to your old address as i said above , you will also by now be outside the appeal time .. your best hope is to call ESA and ONLY talk about one thing and that is what your result was and ware was the result notice sent?

  2. #12
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Hold everything a moment,

    Suddenly there is an ESA WCA, and a decision, in the mix?
    You had not mentioned anything about that previously.

    When asking for advice you have to mention everything that may be relevant, otherwise you may not get the correct advice.

    I can see now why the UC staff may have been confused about what should be happening with your claim, the pending (or already decided but you didn't know) WCA decision was confusing things.

    So let's try again:
    You had an ESA WCA, - What date was that?
    Then you claimed UC - What date was that?
    You've now been told you have a fit for work decision from the ESA WCA - Do you know what date that decision was made? (Not when you were told about it).

    You need to have that decision letter and/or know what date the decision was made on.

    Until we know that date, and the date you claimed UC, it isn't possible to properly advise what you should be doing now.
    (Without the dates we can only give a lot of ifs/buts that would just get confusing).

    All isn't lost, but we do need to know those dates to be able to give the correct advice.
    It will be different advice depending on if the ESA decision was made before or after you claimed UC.

    For now-
    1. Come back to us with those dates.
    2. I would also get a fit note for the UC, to keep them happy for a while. (and it wil be needed anyway if you have been found FFW).
    3. But don't yet make an application for LCW/LCWRA in UC, or if you already have then please tell us so.
    Last edited by nukecad; 03-28-2019 at 01:08 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  3. #13
    Suddenly there is an ESA WCA, and a decision, in the mix?
    You had not mentioned anything about that previously.
    I didn't think it was relevant because I hadn't heard anything from them and had to continued to receive my ESA. So I'd assumed there wasn't an issue.

    You had an ESA WCA, - What date was that?
    Late Feb.

    Then you claimed UC - What date was that?
    One day before the WCA; I was told by the local council to apply for UC in early Feb, which I got round to doing in late Feb. One day after I had my ESA WCA. It just turned out that way. Obviously, I was unaware of all the consequences here and so it is what it is.

    You've now been told you have a fit for work decision from the ESA WCA - Do you know what date that decision was made? (Not when you were told about it).
    I do NOT know the date of the decision and
    have received no information from ESA about it. I only know what the UC told me about the decision; UC only very recently told me I'd got '0' points and there was some technical jargon which I missed about not being able to transfer over. Also, I know for a fact it's not an issue with the correct address.(Druid, thanks for your input anyway).

    I'm in the process of getting a fit note but where I live it takes weeks to get a Dr's appointment and so won't have it for a couple of weeks though I don't think this'll be an issue as I can present the fit note before my next UC payment. I recently received a UC payment, which was adjusted because of my ESA. Overall,
    I'm receiving less than I did with Housing Benefit + ESA.

    I haven't made any application for LCW/LCWRA; the UC person did advise me to apply but I think I have to get the fit note first anyway.

    P.S. Assuming I've failed the WCA, is there any point in challenging the decision? I mean what happens if they stick with the original decision?
    Last edited by breadliner; 03-28-2019 at 03:17 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    OK that's fair enough, although the WCA has complicated things.

    (And like I say I can see how it's confused the DWP staff, they have probably never come across this situation before).

    While the decision date is still important we can work with what we have for now, because:
    If you claimed UC one day before your WCA then it's impossible for the WCA decision to have been made before you claimed UC.

    So you still had an award of ESA Support Group when you claimed UC, and this should have been automatically applied when you claimed UC as a UC-LCWRA in accordance with Regulation 19.

    However because of the WCA there are now 2 further points that arise:
    1. Your ESA was Contribution Based, and so should have remaind in payment, but without any premiums. (Unless you closed the ESA claim yourself).
      That ESA payment should have been £110.75 a week
      The ESA payment amount should then have been deducted from the UC payment. - Which you say has happened with your last UC payment.
      The ESA claim would end, and stop being paid on the date of the WCA FFW decision. Which is why it's important to know that date.
    2. The UC-LCWRA status would also only remain in force until the date of the WCA decision. Again why it's important to know that date.


    What I believe has happened is:
    • Your CB ESA has indeed continued outside of UC as it should, and has been correctly deducted from the UC payment.
    • It does not look as though they included LCWRA in the UC, which they should have done from the start of the claim until the WCA decision date.
    • Both your ESA and your UC-LCWRA have/would have stopped on the date that the WCA decision was made.


    So, subject to that decision date and if ESA was paid up to that date, it looks as if UC have done things correctly apart from not adding the LCWRA in UC from the start.

    Where does this leave you now.

    You have 2 different things to do:

    Firstly let's look at the WCA decision - You now have a choice.
    1. You could ask ESA for MR (and appeal if needed) of the WCA FFW decision.
      (You are supposed to ask for MR within a month of the decision date, but can sometimes ask later - say you never got the decision).
      Whilst this goes on you will still claim UC at the standard rate, but when you tell them you have asked for MR/Appeal they should not ask you to do any jobsearching while those are going on.
      You shouldn't need to supply fit notes, but they may ask you to anyway. (Because they don't know the rules properly).
      If you win the MR/appeal then your CB ESA will be reinstated, the LCWRA reinstated in UC, and UC-LCWRA would be backdated to when the ESA stopped. (ESA would not be backdated because it would only have been deducted from the UC anyway).
      If you lose then you stay on UC at standard rate as a jobseeker.
      or-
    2. You could forget about MR/appeal, supply fitnotes, and apply for LCW/LCWRA under UC, which would mean another assessment.
      Again you would stay on UC, with no jobseeking until that new WCA decision is made.
      If you pass this new WCA it would not reinstate your ESA but would add an LCW/LCWRA element to the UC.

    Which you chose is up to you.
    Your overall money would be the same in either case.
    The main difference is that CB ESA is not affected by any savings over £6K or a working partner, and is paid fortnightly.
    UC would be affected by any savings over £6k or a working partner, and is paid monthly.
    I know that you don't have the savings now, but might come into some money in future.

    Secondly:
    You should check if UC-WRA has been paid from the start of your UC claim to the date of the WCA decision.
    If it hasn't been then you should challenge that again, once again quoting that regulation 19 at them.
    (This might mean a seperate MR/appeal against the decision not to include it).

    I hope that's clear enough, and as I say some parts do depend on the date of that WCA decison.
    Last edited by nukecad; 03-28-2019 at 04:29 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #15
    i think sorting out brexit might be easier

  6. #16
    Hi, I received a letter today saying that my ESA payments will stop because my WCA 'shows that although you may have a disability...you're capable of doing some work.' The rest of the letter explains the decision using various examples whilst completely ignoring any evidence that might contradict their justification for the decision such as my Doctor's note and other supporting documents.

    I plan to appeal.

    However, whilst I was waiting for the decision I called UC on several occasions asking for my ESA award to be migrated over to UC LCW but they kept telling me I'd failed the WCA. So, I called ESA and they kept telling me no decision had been made.

    I'm not clear what happened here. I don't understand how UC could know WCA decisions before ESA and it feels like UC were lying to me.

    In the meantime, my ESA has stopped and I was wondering what happens. Do I automatically get moved over to JSA or some such? I've got an appointment at the jobcentre scheduled soon.

  7. #17
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Your current situation is as I explained above in my previous post.

    You have the choice of appealing the WCA decision or making a new application for Limited Capability under UC, I explain each choice in more detail above.

    Secondly- If they did not pay LCWRA with the UC from the UC start date until the date of the WCA decision, then you can challenge that by asking for an MR (and quoting Transitional Reg. 19 at them).
    Don't confuse them by talking about the WCA, simply put something like:
    "I request a Mandatory Reconsideration of the decision not to pay me the LCWRA element of Universal Credit.
    I contend that this should have been paid from the start of the UC claim for the following reason:
    I was Naturally Migrated from ESA Support Group to Universal Credit on {date}, and as such should have been immediately paid the LCWRA element with my UC in accordance with Regulation 19 of the The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014, Regulation 19"

    I would put it in the Payments section of your journal, where it should be seen by your Case Manager rather than your Work Coach.

    I don't understand how UC could know WCA decisions before ESA
    It is not unusual for UC to know something that ESA doesn't or vice-versa, they use different computer systems so information that needs to be on both computer systems will always get put on one before the other.

    In the meantime, my ESA has stopped and I was wondering what happens. Do I automatically get moved over to JSA or some such?
    You cannot claim JSA, you are already claiming UC.
    The only difference for you is that you have now been found fit for work at the WCA and so you are now a jobseeker.
    Your claimant commitment will change to reflect this, unless you appeal the WCA or apply for Limited Capability under UC and supply fit notes.
    Your money from UC will not change, but without an appeal or fit notes you will be asked to search and apply for jobs.

    Please read my previous post again, I explained it all there.
    Last edited by nukecad; 04-27-2019 at 09:36 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  8. #18
    In the meantime, my ESA has stopped and I was wondering what happens.
    I was asking about the payments. I was told my ESA payments would stop but not that my UC would be re-adjusted (increased) to reflect this. At least, that's what I've understood from the above but I have little faith. There's nothing in my UC journal to indicate that my UC will be increased as a result of losing my ESA. So, sorry, it wasn't clear to me from what you wrote above.

    Throughout this ordeal, the UC and Jobcentre staff have been incompetent and unhelpful in addressing my issues.

    Yes, thank you for the other information. However, I'm anxious about the MR as there isn't really any further evidence I can present other than asking my Dr for a longer letter. I felt the WCA assessor had decided early on in the assessment that she was going to fail me.

  9. #19
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I see,

    UC will be informed of the WCA decision, as it will affect you Limited Capabilty status in UC.
    You would expect that they would identify from that that your ESA payments had stopped so should no longer be deducted from your UC.

    But knowing the DWP I would cover yourself and put a note on the payments section of your journal that you have been found FFW at a WCA and so your ESA payments will stop (have stopped) on such a date.
    (You could also note that you are asking for MR/appeal of that decision).

    TBH I would not expect anything to change at MR.
    MRs very rarely change the original decision (only about 10%), so assume that it won't do here.
    Prepare that you will have to go for an appeal to the tribunal where you have a much better chance (currently 74%) of winning your case.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #20
    In that case Fit Notes are not required and they should pay you the LCWRA element of UC from the start of your UC claim. This is stated in law, see below.

    However there have been difficulties getting the ESA award transfered into the UC award.
    It's all to do with UC having to wait for ESA to send them confirmation of what group you were in before the can add it to your UC file.
    They were supposed to have sorted this out now with managed migrations starting in a couple of months.

    This is kinda daft this. It says on the letter they send you every year

    "Extra money because you are severely disabled"
    "Extra money because you are in support group"

    So they know your disabled and they know your in the support group, what the problem

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