Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: IB to ESA not getting the same amount.

  1. #1

    IB to ESA not getting the same amount.

    Hi everyone,

    Newb on the job. Was hoping someone might advise me on this issue before I ring DWP.

    Due to some pretty severe illnesses, my wife normally handles our finances and this is the only reason I can explain why this was perhaps not noticed until last week.

    I was migrated from IB to CB ESA with a top-up in September 2012. My IB award included the basic rate for me of £99.15, an extra amount for the heavy national insurance I had paid for a number of years of £26.38 and an additional payment for a spouse, civil partner, children and other people of £8.10

    After the DWP wrote to me after initially putting me in the wrong group by not even being capable of seeing the tick in the moving around outside box. When they sent the amended award... It did not include the £8.10


    It consisted of living expenses £71.00

    extra money because you are in the support group £34.05

    which gives a total income related amount of £105.05

    No income will be taken off your ESA

    Your income-related amount is £105.05 less £0.00 so you would have been entitled to £105.05

    However, because you are entitled to contribution-based ESA we will pay you £125.53

    Then below that it says 'top-up payment

    Included in your ESA entitlement is a top-up payment which ensures you won't see a reduction in the level of your benefit entitlement as a result of the change to ESA of £20.48

    Now everywhere on the forms, notes and on this letter it states that 'you won't loose any money transfering to ESA'

    So therefore my question is, how can this be true when I have lost £8.10 a week since 2012?

    Is this wrong or can they just remove a portion of it when ever they wan?

    I know there is a huge amount of ESA based info on here but nothing seemed like my case.

    Again, I know this should have been picked up long ago, but between us, it didn't so here we are.

    Could anyone she'd any light on this one please

    Kind regards
    Last edited by Mondo; 03-19-2019 at 05:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    7,129
    This is one I've not come across before.

    The basic rates of ESA given are correct for 2012.

    The top-up payment is what is called a "Transitional Addition" and was meant to ensure that you didn't get paid less on ESA than you did with IB.

    From what you say you were getting a total of £133.63 on IB. I suspect that this was actually IB with an Income Support top-up.
    So as you say you were £8.10 down with ESA.

    I've checked the IB/IS rates for 2012 and found:
    Long-term IB was £99.15 as you say.

    I can also find a figure for the £8.10 which is a 'Child Dependency Increase' payable for the eldest child for whom child benefit is also paid.
    This is payable with Income Support, not Incapacity benefit

    But I can't find anything that corresponds to your other figure of £26.38?
    You say that this was becuase of extra NI payments you had made, but I can't find anything about that either?
    If you know exactly what it was called I may be able to find it.

    HOWEVER- putting all that aside for the moment.
    I think that what is happening here is that like many others you were not correctly assessed when transfering from IB to ESA.

    They only assessed for Contribution Based entitlement and forgot about the Income Related entitlement.
    They are now having to review all IB-ESA transfers, and backpay where they got it wrong.

    Yours is the first case I've heard where they may have forgotten to include an existing IR entitlement (The Income Support) as well, but it's quite believable.

    They are currently about halfway through all the transfers that they have to review so should get around to yours sometime, but it may be a while.
    When they do they should pick up on the discrepency, they are being very careful to check things properly this time around.

    Normally, unless you also have DLA/PIP, you would not be owed much because your TA would have covered what they had missed (until 2017 anyway).
    However if, as sounds likely, they have missed £8.10 a week of your TA then they should backpay that.

    It is a bit unusual in that the review is looking at where they have missed altogether entitlement to IR ESA as well as CB ESA - it's not realy looking at errors in the TA but they should pick it up.

    EDIT - I've just removed a section. If you read it then hold fire on that for a while, I'm thinking about and checking a further point.
    Last edited by nukecad; 03-19-2019 at 10:37 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  3. #3
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    7,129
    Hi mondo,

    I've just been checking something and I need to ask if your wife was working when you transfered, or if you had any savings above £6,000?
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  4. #4
    Hi Nukecad,
    I was hoping you would pick this one up. Thank you for the response and all your input.

    As far as I was aware, especially on the old IB award, I wasn't entitled to any IS and certainly the benefits agency never mentioned any IS in my award letters. We were not quite on a low enough income to be entitled to it.

    As far as I can remember, the £26.38 was an additional payment because I had paid quite a large amount of NI contributions during a certain period prior to a horrific accident I had some years ago which led to the original claim. I will see if I can find some letters which mention what it was called.

    The additional payment segment for wife and children, had reduced in perhaps around 2010 ish as my eldest had finished higher education. The remaining payment of £8.10 that was left, I believed was for the wife portion of that additional payment, but maybe I am wrong then. I will find the letters for the years running up to 2012 and get back to you with what they say on that. In the meantime, thank you so very much for the initial assistance, I really appreciate it.

    Kind regards
    Mondo





  5. #5
    Hi Nukecad,

    She did 16 hours in 2012 and perhaps just.

    Mondo

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    7,129
    Thanks Mondo,

    It sounds as if the £26.38 may have been an industrial/accidental injuries payment of some kind?
    That would explain why it seems to be an odd amount, it would be an individual award.
    It would also explain why it seems to have not been Income Related.
    I'll might see what I can find later, but I don't think it's realy important here as they paid that in your TA anyway.

    I wasn't entitled to any IS and certainly the benefits agency never mentioned any IS in my award letters. We were not quite on a low enough income to be entitled to it.
    That is interesting and I believe it's helped me work out what has probably happened.

    I've looked at the 2012 benefit rates again and that £8.10 'Child Dependency Increase' could indeed be paid with long-term IB. (But not with 'short-term').
    That information is a bit lost in the middle of a paragraph and easy to miss.
    (You actually have to read 2 paragraphs together and it's in the middle of one of them).

    I'm thinking that when you transfered someone made the same mistake and assumed it was being paid as IS, which is Income related.
    That could explain why the £8.10 was not added, someone thought it was Income Related.

    I came across an original DWP document from 2011 about calculating the TA.
    This shows that there were 2 different TA's to be calculated - one for Contribution Based and one for Income realted.

    So it's possible that someone could have got paid a TA with the CB part of ESA, but not with the IR part of ESA.

    I've not fully got my head around it yet, but it seems that somebody could be entitled to some IS which is income related, but the different rules with ESA meant that they weren't entitled to IR ESA - so didn't get a TA with the IR ESA (because you didn't have IR ESA).
    This does seem strange in light of the 'nobody worse off' claims, but there are examples in that document where it could happen, eg. if a personal pension was in payment.
    (And we know that 'nobody worse off' is a lie, just look at UC migrations and the SDP).

    So it looks like what may have happened is that they did assess you for both CB ESA and IR ESA as they should have done.
    But because you were not entitled to IR ESA (because of your wifes income) they have then assumed that the £8.10 TA should not be applied, because they had assumed that was an Income Related TA.


    As you had been assessed for IR ESA at the time of your transfer then the IB-ESA review team will not be looking at your case.

    So what to do now?
    I think that your best bet is to email your regional complaints team about this.

    I would set it out to them just as you have above.
    Forget the side issues about the wrong group and just point out the discrepancy in what you were getting in total before and after your transfer (give the figures like you did above); saying that it appears that your Transitional Addition was wrongly calculated.
    Tell them that you believe that the £8.10 "Child Dependency Increase" was disregarded from the TA because the assesor wrongly assumed it was Income Related when in fact it was paid as an addition to Long-term Incapacity Benefit.

    That should point them in the direction to look.

    You can find the email address for your local complaints resolution team here, I believe they are still up to date:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...plaint-address

    Please come back if there is anything there that you don't understand, or if we can help further.
    Last edited by nukecad; 03-20-2019 at 11:44 AM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  7. #7
    Thanks Nukecad,

    They sent me the re-assessment form last November but because for some of the time from 2012 to now, my wife worked for 30 hours and so they said I could tick the box to NOT look at it again. They also said I could still have the IR looked at again at a later date if I decided I wanted to have it considered.

    It was roughly 2013 to 2016 she did 30 hours and it was to qualify to be able to get a small amount of WTC.

    I got that additional payment right from the early stages of IB and it seems to be on every correspondance they sent me and they listed it as:

    "Money for your spouse, civil partner, children and other people of £8.10"

    As I said, It used to be more than £8:10, I think it was around £15 odd until my daughter went to uni, then it reduced to the £8:10. that is why I presumed it was for the "spouse" aspect of that section.

    I thought this might get a little confusing... I'm off to put my head in some cold water just now.

    I will let you know as soon as I find anything that coressponds to those figures, I'm looking as we write.

    Kind regards

    Mond

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    7,129
    The standard 'Child Dependency Increases rate' was £11.35, the £8.10 was a reduced rate because the first child got more in child benefit.
    Probably something to do with your daughter going to uni so CB changing?
    The things they write on letters often bear only a passing resemblance tho what things are actually called.
    See the btm of page 4 and top of page 5 of this: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...trates2012.pdf

    Yes your wife working more than 24 hrs would mean that IR ESA was not payable, so the review would say no backpay was payable for that.
    (It might have been for a while in 2102 if she was working less, but maybe not depending on her earnings).

    However this seems to be an error with calculating your Contribution Based TA, and not about whether you quailfied for IR ESA or not.
    I'd still do that email to ask them to double check.
    (If they have made an error then that's at least 6 years x 52 weeks x £8.10 = £2,527.20 that they owe you, worth spending a bit of time to get it clarified).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  9. #9
    Hi Nukecad,

    I'll get on with that then.

    I had an appointment time with one of the advisors at our CAB last Friday and to be quite frank... I think I knew more than he did. He telephoned the office at the top of my award letter, who after going through the security questions, then told the agent that they were paying me £146:01? She was adding the top-up to the total of £125:53 again. She then told the advisor that 2012 was going back too far for that office to be able to see and that if I wasn't receiving £146:01, I would need to write to them along with bank statements showing just what I was receiving and they would look into it.

    I'm not sure if you told me or I read it on another post that you were not overwhelmed with what the DWP help line staff come up with. Do you think it would be worth me ringing them to see if I could just get a simple explanation, or just go straight for the complaint email? What I am worried about is rocking the boat by asking them.

    Thank you so much Nuke for such an in-depth research exercise, I really appreciate your help with this.

    Kind regards
    Ian

  10. #10
    I think you should go for the email approach
    the chances of someone answering the phone knowing/understanding/having a clue are slight at the most

Similar Threads

  1. What is this ESA extra amount?
    By Biscuitgazer in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-19-2017, 10:59 AM
  2. Overpaid by little amount?
    By Beddz in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-22-2014, 08:53 AM
  3. odd dla amount..
    By ihatethisplace in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-27-2014, 06:58 PM
  4. Is my son getting the right amount off money?
    By mich67 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-04-2013, 07:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •