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Thread: deferred pension and benefits

  1. #1

    deferred pension and benefits

    does anyone know what the dwp approach is to people who defer their pension?
    - only until state pension age

    so not taking it at 60, but instead at 65 or whatever year I will be eligible

  2. #2
    I found this on another site (Benefits & Work) regarding deferred pensions:

    "Any deferred pension will likely be classed as Notional Income, in other words you will be classed as receiving it even though you are not, however, there is an £85/week disregard for pension income for claimants receiving ESA(CB).

    You still need to inform the DWP of this Change of Circumstances and they will undoubtedly require additional documentation about what is happening."

  3. #3
    I am not sure that counts if I am under state pension age

    I wish I knew how to find the legislation on this but I don't know where to start

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker View Post
    I wish I knew how to find the legislation on this but I don't know where to start
    This would be classed as 'Notional income' because it's 'Income available on application'.

    ie. You are expected to take it as income if you can, rather than depending on benefits.

    If you don't take it as income when you could do, then it will be treated as if you had taken it anyway, and your ESA reduced.

    The DM guidance on how to treat Personal and Occupational pension with ESA is in Volume 8, chapter 51, and starts at paragraph 51535.
    https://assets.publishing.service.go...73/dmgch51.pdf

    It's quite long and complicated and you have to read it carefully.
    There are different rules about being under or over Pension Credit Age and most of the guidance is about how to treat that in various circumstances.
    (Obviously it's the claimants partner who is over PC age, ESA is a working age benefit).
    You have to be careful that what you are reading applies and is not for the other case.

    However:
    51536 states at the end:
    For people under the qualifying age for SPC. The weekly amount of any notional
    income to be taken into account should be calculated as if it is actual income.
    There is an example at 51553 that probably explains what you are asking best:
    Example

    Bernard receives ESA(IR). He is 61.
    On 1 November the DM receives evidence that Bernard is entitled to a personal
    pension but has not bought an annuity or drawn an income.

    The pension fund holder states that Bernard’s scheme can provide an income. In
    Bernard’s case the maximum amount of income, based on the GAD tables, is £23 a
    week.

    Once an application is made it would take the pension fund holder six weeks to
    arrange for the maximum income to be paid.

    The DM decides that Bernard should be treated as having a notional income of £23
    a week from 13 December.
    So Bernard has chosen not to draw from his personal pension, but because he could have done then the DM treats it as 'Notional Income' anyway and reduces his ESA accordingly.
    Last edited by nukecad; 05-14-2019 at 12:29 AM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #5
    thank you for that Nukecad

    I will read through the legislation - or at least, try!!


    aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

    very concerned


    ed. I see your example above (their eg) but above that section it says pensions should not be counted if person is under state pension qualifying age - (51497)

    ??????????????????

    I think I am drowning!!!!
    I don't get it
    it says not counted if under spc age
    but then says it is counted

    I have no idea where to get help with this without employing a welfare solicitor


    ed. with regard to 'our friend Bernard' above - he has the pension fund but it is not a pension nor an annuity so perhaps is treated differently

    here is a link to a page on the GOV. website - there they seem to be completely contradicting what the DMG and legislation say

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...d-dwp-benefits
    See section on UNDER pension credit age

    the section you referred to - 51536 - actually says the DM should IGNORE potential income from - Personal pension scheme/Occupational pension scheme or Pension protection fund -
    for people UNDER the qualifying age for SPC

    so I am still confused about Bernard!!!!
    Last edited by walker; 05-14-2019 at 11:41 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Firstly that's not legislation, it's the DWP Decision Makers Guidance based on the legislation.
    It's meant to make what the legislation says clearer for DM's.

    And as I said above you still have to be very careful when reading it.

    Your query about 'under state pension' age shows that.
    It means that an ESA claimants partners pensions should not be counted if the partner is under state pension age.

    If you think about it then it can't mean anything else.
    The ESA claimant themself is always under state pension age - ESA stops when you reach your state pension age.

    It doesn't matter if it's a pension or annuity (or anything else).

    If you could take income from it but choose not to then the DM can treat it as if you were in fact taking that income (Notional income) and deduct it from your ESA anyway.

    If you could take income from it now, but instead move it into a scheme where you can't take income then it becomes a slightly different thing.
    That would be "Deprivation of income with a view to claiming or increasing benefits" and is similar to 'Deprivation of capital with a view to ...'.
    The DM would again treat the income you chose not to take as 'Notional income' and deduct it from your ESA.

    Again it's quite simple,
    You are expected to take any available income that you (reasonably) can, rather than depending on benefits.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  7. #7
    I see what you are saying

    yes

    however it would be useful in the DMG if it actually referred to couples rather than not

    since I am alone - then I assume I have to take my occ. pension when it is due

    but with regard to any pension share I receive from divorce - which will become a pension fund, I guess - who knows!

    I have tried everyone - pensionwise/pension advisory service/CAB
    none of them know the answer

    from what I can tell in the legislation (not the DMG)
    people have to take any possible pension - but would that not mean that anyone with a pension fund, SIPP, would have to take it from at least 60 (the age stated in leg.)
    Last edited by walker; 05-14-2019 at 12:49 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker View Post
    from what I can tell in the legislation (not the DMG)
    people have to take any possible pension - but would that not mean that anyone with a pension fund, SIPP, would have to take it from at least 60 (the age stated in leg.)
    Basically that's it.

    If you are on benefits then you have to take any income you entitled to take (any income that you can), because the DWP will treat it as taken even if you don't.

    For further advice then I think AgeUK will be the best people to know about how pensions will affect benefits.
    https://www.ageuk.org.uk/services/in-your-area/
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  9. #9
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Well that was timely.

    You may find this of use, it was posted on rightsnet earlier today.
    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14496/

    I haven't read it fully, just skimmed it.

    While it starts off talking about mixed age couples, which doesn't apply to yourself, it goes on to discuss 'Notional' income from pensions so you may/should be able to pick something from it.

    Notional income is a widely ignored, or misunderstood, part of the benefits system. In its broad application it is designed to ensure that no one can receive extra benefits by choosing not to take income or capital that they are entitled to.
    The same person also posted this which is more general about the changes due to reaching pension age.
    Again it's weighted to mixed age couples but is relevent to singles too.
    https://benefitsinthefuture.com/iden...-older-people/
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #10
    well I just rang age uk
    and they gave me 4 other sources to try

    I am pretty certain the cut off is 60 for any pension fund (or occ. pension due)


    ed. just saw your other reply - I will take a look
    thank you so much

    I have made so many calls today and no one helps - perhaps I should have begun with the dwp!!
    Last edited by walker; 05-14-2019 at 01:55 PM.

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