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Thread: ESA3 1BR small payment due.

  1. #1

    ESA3 1BR small payment due.

    Filled in ESA3 IBR in february this year.

    I rang the ESA line today for an update on this.
    I was told a small amount of £186 was due as I was on a transitional payment while on ESA
    At the time I was on low care In support group of esa.
    Just wondered does this sound correct I had been on incapacity then to esa for 3 year before moving to pension.

    thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    It could be correct depending on just how much your Transitional Addition was at the start of your ESA.

    (As ESA rates go up the TA reduces over the years - in order to keep your ESA payment fixed at the same as the old IB payment, until ESA catches up).

    With only low rate care DLA you would not have qualified for the Severe Disability Premium.
    Being in Support Group should have qualified you for the Enhanced Disability Premium, so that it what is being backpaid.

    However because you had a TA then the amount to be backpaid is whatever the missing EDP was for those years, LESS whatever TA was paid or those years.

    To put it another way:
    If you had been correctly paid the EDP at the time then you would not have had a TA at all.
    The ESA with EDP would have been higher than your previous IB payment, so no TA would have been needed.
    So what you are now owed is the difference between what the EDP should have paid and what the TA actually paid.

    If you could let me know the dates, from when you transferred to ESA until it stopped, (I know you are on pension now), and how much your IB was before you transferred, then I could work out what your initial TA was and then the backpayment due, to check that £186 against.
    Last edited by nukecad; 06-07-2019 at 01:44 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    It could be correct depending on just how much your Transitional Addition was at the start of your ESA.

    (As ESA rates go up the TA reduces over the years - in order to keep your ESA payment fixed at the same as the old IB payment, until ESA catches up).

    With only low rate care DLA you would not have qualified for the Severe Disability Premium.
    Being in Support Group should have qualified you for the Enhanced Disability Premium, so that it what is being backpaid.

    However because you had a TA then the amount to be backpaid is whatever the missing EDP was for those years, LESS whatever TA was paid or those years.

    To put it another way:
    If you had been correctly paid the EDP at the time then you would not have had a TA at all.
    The ESA with EDP would have been higher than your previous IB payment, so no TA would have been needed.
    So what you are now owed is the difference between what the EDP should have paid and what the TA actually paid.

    If you could let me know the dates, from when you transferred to ESA until it stopped, (I know you are on pension now), and how much your IB was before you transferred, then I could work out what your initial TA was and then the backpayment due, to check that £186 against.
    Thanks for the reply nuke The dates in question I was transferred from incapacity benefit to ESA support group, low care FROM THE 29/02/12 TILL 06/01/2016 When I transferred to pension and pension credit.
    As Its so long ago I have no record of my incapacity benefit or my Esa support payment.
    I will come back to you if the DWP can Supply the amounts for that time.
    Thanks again nuke you are very helpful.

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, but without knowing that TA amount (or the IB amount to work it out) then any calculation would be a guess.

    The EDP is fairly easy to work out on it's own; but without knowing the TA to be deducted that's a bit meangless here.

    Do you have anything, from any year, that says what your ESA payment was? I might be able to work the TA out backwards from that.

    (In the meantime, just doing a bit of playing/guessing then if your ESA with the TA included was around £120/£121 then that figure of £186 backpay would seem to be in the ballpark. But take that with a pinch of salt. I need to get my head around it, it's an odd calculation as the EDP and TA rates cross over with time, and a slight difference in the TA can make a big difference to the backpay due).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Thanks for that, but without knowing that TA amount (or the IB amount to work it out) then any calculation would be a guess.

    The EDP is fairly easy to work out on it's own; but without knowing the TA to be deducted that's a bit meangless here.

    Do you have anything, from any year, that says what your ESA payment was? I might be able to work the TA out backwards from that.

    (In the meantime, just doing a bit of playing/guessing then if your ESA with the TA included was around £120/£121 then that figure of £186 backpay would seem to be in the ballpark. But take that with a pinch of salt. I need to get my head around it, it's an odd calculation as the EDP and TA rates cross over with time, and a slight difference in the TA can make a big difference to the backpay due).
    Hi Nukecad have received the letter this morning in regards to the back payment
    the esa payment from 29/11/2012 to 10/04/2013 £170.75

    from 11/04/2013 to 09/04/2014 £170.75

    from 10/04/2014 to 04/03/2015 £171.80

    from 05/03/2015 to 08/04/2015 £171.80

    from 09/04/2015 to 06/01/2016 £173.65 then moved to pension.

    total back payment was £186.50 is this enough information for you to check thanks again microbar.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Cheers, those are much higher than I was expecting.

    Give me a chance to look at them and see what I can work out from there.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Cheers, those are much higher than I was expecting.

    Give me a chance to look at them and see what I can work out from there.
    Thanks for taking the time to look at the refund details will leave it with you no rush thanks.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Those figures threw me a bit until I realised that this was a couples claim, Support Group with EDP.

    Here is a comparision of what you were paid and the standard ESA rates for that year:
    (ESA Personal Allowance for a couple + Support Group + EDP for a couple).

    from 29/11/2012 to 10/04/2013 £170.75 (Calculated standard ESA 114.45+34.05+21.30 = £166.80) (You got a TA of £3.95)
    from 11/04/2013 to 09/04/2014 £170.75 (Calculated standard ESA 112.55+34.80+21.75 = £169.10) (You got a TA of £1.65)
    from 10/04/2014 to 04/03/2015 £171.80 (Calculated standard ESA 113.70+35.75+22.35 = £171.80) (No TA, the ESA had caught up).
    from 05/03/2015 to 08/04/2015 £171.80 (Calculated standard ESA 113.70+35.75+22.35 = £171.80)
    from 09/04/2015 to 06/01/2016 £173.65 (Calculated standard ESA 114.85+36.20+22.60 = £173.65)

    So you had a TA for the first 2 of those so your payment of £170.75 was more than the standard ESA rate, then the standard ESA rate caught up on 10/04/2014.
    That seems fine, so long as your IB had previously paid £170.75.

    That means you had an initial TA of £3.95, which reduced the next year to £1.65 in order to keep your payment fixed.

    I'm not sure why the next year has been spilt into a 47 week and a 5 week period. (You'd expect a full year April to April).
    Maybe you had been having a MR or appealing an assessment decision?
    But the ESA rate is correct even if it's odd splitting it like that.

    Then 09/04/2015 to the end is the standard ESA rate.

    So from that it looks as if you are not owed anything, as long as your IB was £170.75 before you transfered to ESA.

    However (by working backwards) if your IB payment had been £175.70 then I calculate that the backpay due to you for those 2 years (29/11/2012-09/04/2014) would be £186.47. Give it a bit of rounding to make the £186.50.
    (I won't put the calculation here, it's complicated - but interestingly £170.75 looks like a typo of £175.70).

    BUT if your IB had been £175.70 then the TA should not have ended when it did, and indeed should still be in payment.
    So they would owe you more.

    I think that you need to phone them and ask for a detailed calculation of just how they have worked out the backpayment.
    They may have only adjusted for when the TA was in payment, giving that £186, and not taken into account that it should (probably) still be being paid in 2016.
    (I made the same mistake at first, until I noticed that a TA of £175.70 would still be in payment).

    Without knowing exactly what your IB/IS payment was when you transfered that's about as far as we can go for now.
    (I suspect that you had a combined IB and IS payment of £175.55, but that's only a semi-educated guess).

    That's been an interesting couple of hours on an otherwise dull afternoon. (But I think I'm ready for a pint now).
    Last edited by nukecad; 06-10-2019 at 03:36 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Those figures threw me a bit until I realised that this was a couples claim, Support Group with EDP.

    Here is a comparision of what you were paid and the standard ESA rates for that year:
    (ESA Personal Allowance for a couple + Support Group + EDP for a couple).

    from 29/11/2012 to 10/04/2013 £170.75 (Calculated standard ESA 114.45+34.05+21.30 = £166.80) (You got a TA of £3.95)
    from 11/04/2013 to 09/04/2014 £170.75 (Calculated standard ESA 112.55+34.80+21.75 = £169.10) (You got a TA of £1.65)
    from 10/04/2014 to 04/03/2015 £171.80 (Calculated standard ESA 113.70+35.75+22.35 = £171.80) (No TA, the ESA had caught up).
    from 05/03/2015 to 08/04/2015 £171.80 (Calculated standard ESA 113.70+35.75+22.35 = £171.80)
    from 09/04/2015 to 06/01/2016 £173.65 (Calculated standard ESA 114.85+36.20+22.60 = £173.65)

    So you had a TA for the first 2 of those so your payment of £170.75 was more than the standard ESA rate, then the standard ESA rate caught up on 10/04/2014.
    That seems fine, so long as your IB had previously paid £170.75.

    That means you had an initial TA of £3.95, which reduced the next year to £1.65 in order to keep your payment fixed.

    I'm not sure why the next year has been spilt into a 47 week and a 5 week period. (You'd expect a full year April to April).
    Maybe you had been having a MR or appealing an assessment decision?
    But the ESA rate is correct even if it's odd splitting it like that.

    Then 09/04/2015 to the end is the standard ESA rate.

    So from that it looks as if you are not owed anything, as long as your IB was £170.75 before you transfered to ESA.

    However (by working backwards) if your IB payment had been £175.70 then I calculate that the backpay due to you for those 2 years (29/11/2012-09/04/2014) would be £186.47. Give it a bit of rounding to make the £186.50.
    (I won't put the calculation here, it's complicated - but interestingly £170.75 looks like a typo of £175.70).

    BUT if your IB had been £175.70 then the TA should not have ended when it did, and indeed should still be in payment.
    So they would owe you more.

    I think that you need to phone them and ask for a detailed calculation of just how they have worked out the backpayment.
    They may have only adjusted for when the TA was in payment, giving that £186, and not taken into account that it should (probably) still be being paid in 2016.
    (I made the same mistake at first, until I noticed that a TA of £175.70 would still be in payment).

    Without knowing exactly what your IB/IS payment was when you transfered that's about as far as we can go for now.
    (I suspect that you had a combined IB and IS payment of £175.55, but that's only a semi-educated guess).

    That's been an interesting couple of hours on an otherwise dull afternoon. (But I think I'm ready for a pint now).
    Great stuff Nukecad I definitely owe you a pint. You mention the TA should have still been paid in 2016 But I ended my ESA claim on 07/01/2016 and moved to pension and pension credit.on that date.

    I am at a loss why that year was split into 47 and 5 weeks the only time I appealed was when My esa was first awarded to me in 29/11/2012
    They put me into the wrag group of esa But I asked them to look at the decision again. as It was clear they had not bothered to look at my consultant reports. after about 6 month they said they had looked at the decision again and moved me to the support group of esa.

    They have given me a sort of spread sheet with all the calculations on it. I can send this to you in an attachment if that is permitted.
    Or should I ask them again for a detailed calculation of just how they have worked out the back payment.

    Thanks again nukecad for your time.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbar View Post
    They have given me a sort of spread sheet with all the calculations on it. I can send this to you in an attachment if that is permitted.
    That might be interesting if you could upload it.

    Unfortunately the uploads here (even just photos) take a long time to be accessible for other users to view.
    I think it's slightly better for attachments than 'in-line' uploads.
    There are also some strange size limits on what files you can upload.
    (eg. PDFs can't be bigger than 19.5KB, but DOCs can be 488.3KB, most other formats are 195.3KB, but zips only 97.7KB).

    If you want to have a go then make sure that you are not showing any personal details, then:
    In the editor click 'Go Advanced', then scroll down and click 'Manage Attachments'.
    You'll get a pop-up window, which shows what filtypes/size you can upload.
    Click 'Browse' in 'Upload Files from your Computer', and select the file.
    Then back in the pop-up click 'Upload' and then close that window.
    The attachment will then be added to the post when you make it.

    If you've photrographed it or scanned it as an image then there is an 'Insert Image' button on the editor toolbar that you could use instead, it's slightly easier to use and will insert most image formats (including PDFs) inline in the post.
    The same filesize limits apply, and it may take longer for the upload to be available for others to read.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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