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Thread: PIP Mandatory Reconsideration. Do I make my own points suggestions or not?

  1. #11
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotleag View Post
    The most important thing as far as I can see is where the assessor has failed to take my written submission - posted along with the application - into account as evidence.
    You seem to be misunderstanding the process here.

    It is not for the assessor to take your submission, or any other supplied evidence, into account.

    The assessor is merely carrying out an assessment of your abilities on the day of the assessment, nothing else.

    It the DWP Decision Maker who then takes account of that assessment - as well as your submission, medical evidence, and anything else you have submitted.

    Arguing that the assessor didn't take you evidence into account is of no use - because that is not their job.
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  2. #12
    I'm certainly having difficulty in understanding the process. On the first page of her report under 'List all evidence considered alongside the consultation findings' the health professional has written 'PIP questionnaire 25/05/19' so clearly she has taken more into account than how I was on the day in question - June 12th. Now if I had made all my submissions on the actual questionnaire then it's clear they WOULD have been taken into account when she looked at the questionnaire. I wrote nothing in the questionnaire where it asked for additional information other than 'please see attached submission' in each relevant instance.

    Also I cannot see how it is possible to conduct a consultation WITHOUT considering at least some supplied evidence. How else does the health professional know which questions to ask?

  3. #13
    Also, how does this square with the DWP's PIP Assessment Guide Part One - The Assessment Process which states in 1.6.5 on face-to-face consultations "Before starting the consultation, the HP should read the claimant questionnaire and all other evidence on file." (My emphasis)?

  4. #14
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    The PIP questionnaire, and any attached sheets that each question directly refers to, ie. a continuation of the answer to that specific question, is a part of the assessment on the day.

    A 'submission' is not a part of that questionnaire, it is additional evidence for the DM to consider.

    Once again I strongly suggest that you get help from a local welfare advisor.
    I believe that you risk getting things wrong with your MR and appeal without that help.
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  5. #15
    That is precisely my point. My submission consisted of an introductory paragraph explaining why I was sending it, thirteen additional pieces of information relating to nine questions and clearly marked as such, and a daily living diary of the fortnight after receiving the PIP questionnaire. You seem to be suggesting that had I been able to put those thirteen pieces of information into nine separate parts added to each relevant question it would have been taken into account but because it was part of a separate submission it wasn't.

    It still doesn't square with the DWP's guidance that ALL evidence on file should be read or ATOS's own guide for claimants which reads "If we do need to see you for a face to face consultation, additional evidence will be read by the Health Professional you meet and will help them understand your health condition or disability better" (my emphasis)

    The assessor has written 'based on the available evidence' in each section of her report. To my reading, both the DWP and ATOS are saying ALL available evidence should be read by the health professional prior to consultation and I cannot see how it is possible to come to any other conclusion. Quite clearly he report cannot be based on the 'available evidence' if evidence that was available has not been read and taken into account.

    You wrote earlier "Arguing that the assessor didn't take you evidence into account is of no use - because that is not their job." Yet the DWP are suggesting it should be part of their job and ATOS are specifically stating it IS part of their job "additional evidence will be read by the Health Professional you meet.

    I've been searching for local welfare advisors and it's a question of finding the one with the best expertise in this area.

    I appreciate your advice and I can see that you are highly experienced and very helpful in giving of your time and knowledge but I can't see how pointing out a health professional failed to carry out a function the DWP says she should and ATOS says she WILL can be anything other than helpful when asking for a mandatory reconsideration or for subsequent appeal.

  6. #16
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but you are totally missing the point of what you should be concentrating on for MR (and appeal).

    You are not the first, and you won't be the last, to get sidetracked in this manner, concentrate on the wrong things, and thus end up being unsuccessful at MR/appeal.

    Your MR/appeal is about showing how your conditions affect your abilities, nothing else.

    Getting sidetracked into arguing about procedures and processes, and/or calling the assessor a liar/incompetent/unqualified is not going to help you get your benefit at all.
    (The DWP love it when people do this, it's all irrelevant to MR/appeal and masks the issues that do matter).

    Please. please, get help from a local advisor who can see your paperwork and steer you in the right direction to what you should be concentrating on.
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  7. #17
    I don't think Im missing the point at all. It's not an either/or situation. I'm saying that the assessor failed to do what the DWP suggested she SHOULD do and what ATOS said she WOULD do. I'm not blaming her or calling her a liar. It's much more likely the DWP failed to send all relevant material to ATOS or ATOS didn't pass it on to the health professional than for her not to read what she received. After all, only today I've received a letter the DWP say I asked for but I didn't. They are perfectly capable of human error.

    And If I don't point this out now then it's perfectly possible that I could be asked at appeal why I didn't.

    This is actually central to the issue not a sidetrack. The decision to refuse my application will come after having taken into account the health professional's report and if that report was compiled on a flawed basis - as it has been - then it's incumbent on me to point it out.

    I don't see how it 'masks' the issues if I cover everything comprehensively. In fact it may be the opposite. Surely the DWP are less likely to respond fully to twenty points rather than half a dozen and each one they don't address strengthens the case at appeal.

    I am continuing to search for a local advisor. I've used the Turn2Us finder but so far have only come up with two relevant possibilities within a 25-mile radius and both appear web-based. One of them has a physical address but it is on an industrial estate inaccessible by public transport.

  8. #18

  9. #19
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Again I'm not trying to be argumentatitive here.

    I'm just trying to point out, (from my years of experience doing this and seeing others go through it), that what you are currently concentrating on is the wrong thing.

    I'm worried that you are going about things the wrong way and so lessening your chances of success.

    It doesn't matter in the slightest at this stage what the DWP/ATOS did or didn't do with your evidence.
    You can argue this with the DWP until you are blue in the face, they won't take any notice at MR (or otherwise).

    Don't expect the MR to change anything, they rarely do.

    If/when you get to appeal then the tribunal will look properly at everything that you send them, and make their own decision based on that.

    The tribunal KNOW that the DWP/ATOS don't handle or look at the provided evidence properly, you don't have to convince them of that they see it everyday.
    All you have to say is "The DWP/ATOS didn't properly consider the evidence that I sent to them" - no more than that is needed.

    You don't have to elaborate the tribunal KNOW already, and they are already on your side about it.

    The central issue is to get the points you need for PIP.
    Concentrate your efforts on arguing for the points that you think you should have got.
    Use your evidence to back up those points, the tribunal will read it.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #20
    I don't expect the MR to change anything. All I want to do is to get everything down on paper now so that I can't be asked at tribunal why I didn't. And while I've no doubt whatsoever tribunals see DWP/ATOS failures/inconsistencies etc all the time I genuinely don't think just saying 'they didn't properly consider the evidence' is enough

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