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Thread: Self employed with limited-capabilty-to-work?

  1. #1

    Self employed with limited-capabilty-to-work?

    Hi All,

    I've been reading more into the LCWRA group (limited capability for work-related activities) which allows for an extra monthly element of £336.20. I understand this is an assesment process and I'm sure my capacity would be suffice. We have done the online entitledto calculator.

    My capacity with work is hugely limited, and there's no way my abilites can be compared to national wage, but for the sake of filling my time, meeting my own needs and taking care of my own mental health in my early 30s, I really 'want' to try and do something. Sure, the extra element is wonderful and would be a massive help towards putting food on the table and making ends meet. But, here is my question and where my confusion lies with doing any permitted work.

    - WIth UC and LCWRA, is it possible in their write up to even try without it feeling like it's pointless?
    - If it's possible to work and earn something, is it tapered just the same way?

    My expections are just to remain positive and focus on what I can do. In todays age with the use of technology + support available to me, I just want to really try and do something, whether that's using my education background, and freelance. This might mean something simple as giving people skype for consults and email for support. However, the amount of money I can make or how successful I am is a really big black hole. It could be £50 one week and nothing all month or £150 or hey I might get lucky and have tons of people wanting my service (haha highly unlikely). Nevertheless, I'm very unsure if this all works with UC and any idea of self-employment seems a monstrosity due to not being able to handle irregular income.

    So, does anybody have any guidance on the best route to move forward? Should I request LCWRA considering PIP process has literaly just finished for me? Although; I believe Limited capability for work related activity isn't payable for the first 3 months of your claim.

    Many thanks for reading.

    Any thoughts to bounce back with would be great.

    Ta!
    Last edited by albablue89; 07-29-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    From what you say then:

    You shouldn't need to make a claim for LCWRA in UC - you should already have it.
    And from the start of your UC claim, no 3 month wait.

    It looks like they did correctly put you in the 'No Work Requirements' group when you started on UC, because you said that you had Support Group in ESA.
    However it takes them some time to sort out the extra payment, (lots of forms back and fro' between ESA and UC).
    So you wouldn't get it at first, which is why it isn't showing up the January summary.

    I'm not sure if you are saying the second lot of figures are from the UC Journal or from the entitledto calculator?
    If it's from the Journal then it seems correct.
    (But I'm guessing that it's from entitledto; because it's showing pence and a UC summary doesn't normally do that).

    It is showing the 'Disability or health condition £336.20' - which it should do.
    If you are still getting paid CB ESA Support Group then that will be £111.65 a week and will be deducted from the UC payment. (Which will be the £454.95 'adjustment').
    It looks from the January summary that they are already deducting it.

    If this is not what is being paid as UC then you need to query why.
    It may be that it's just taking a long time to get the required forms from ESA, 6 or 7 month is not unusual, but they may have 'forgotten' to add it to your UC.
    You need to check. Ring them or put a query on the 'payments' page of your journal.

    Once you get that correctly added then you will already have LCWRA and so won't need to be assessed until you are due for an ESA reassessment.
    (The one assessment is supposed to apply to both ESA and UC, but they have been known to sometimes get even that wrong).

    When you have the LCWRA added then you will also have an automatic 'Work Allowance' of £503.00; that is the amount that you can earn each month without it affecting your UC.
    I think that has to cover both partners earnings (but I'm not sure on that one?), but it should be enough to cover your partners earnings and your small earnings from S/E.

    As you rightly note by all reports Self Employment in UC can be a nightmare, but that work allowance should make things easier.
    It's obvious that when they were setting up UC they never (properly) considered self employment.
    PS. You may have heard of 'The Minimum Income Floor' for self employed in UC, this will not apply in your case - You have to be in the 'All-work-related requirements' group for a MIF to apply.

    That's a bit long, but I hope it all helps.

    EDIT-
    Have a read of this about migrating to UC.
    The legal bit, Regulation 19(1)(a &b) and 19(4)(b) also apply in your case:
    http://www.youreable.com/forums/show...l=1#post133915
    Last edited by nukecad; 07-18-2019 at 01:58 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  3. #3
    @nukecad

    Sorry, my fault, I made a typo.

    - I don't qualify for ESA CB.
    - I was off ESA for too long for it to be linked with a new UC claim.
    - At the initial sign-in / turn-up for UC, I explained my situations and that I didn't have the capacity to work and was told I was taking out the looking for work requirments.

    So, I'm wondering now if I should have made futher process to apply for full WCA for higher rate LCWRA there and then or just get it done now, becuase the entitledto calculator findings as above shows that if I qualify for it then we would get it despite my partners earnings. I somehow had the feeling it was income related like ESA and wouldn't get it.

    As of April this year, our statement says the first £503 of earnings doesn't affect UC (it was £409 in January etc), we assumed that could of been for responsibility for a child with not receive housing support, since there was no extra entitliment allowance before adjustment. So I think you're right the £503 is most likely an allowance for both of us to cover earnings.

    So, assuming the entitledto calculator is correct, we could be getting the disability or health condition allowance element too at £336.20 as part of the UC claim UC (under higher LCWRA). And there is nothing to say that you cannot work and claim UC (LCWRA), or is there any real boundaries to be aware of similiar to old-style ESA permitted work rules?

    Thanks for your time

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I see,

    So you are in the no work group but don't currently have LCW/LCWRA.

    UC is income related but you obviousy qualify.because you are getting it.
    So I would say go for the LCWRA.

    You would need to do a UC50 and assessment etc.
    And if you only get LCW not LCWRA it wouldnt pay any extra.
    (And if they found you fit for work then hello jobseeking)

    I'm not sure just why you are already getting the work allowance.
    AFAIK you'd need more than one child, unless the child had a disability.
    But there are other reasons why you could have it.

    There is no concept of permitted work with UC, its just work so no limits other than the normal earmings limits fot UC.
    Of course if you do a lot of work it would affect your next WCA.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #5
    Thanks kindly for your support nuke

    I will phone them to clarify more tomorrow and hopefully kickstart the process more.

    UC50 form looks very similar line of questioning to PIP50. I have answers recently saved from that which we can snippet from.

    To confirm that WCA is similar 3 month assessment period? And LWCRA wouldn’t be backdated?

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    PIP50? I think you mean the ESA50. LOL.

    Yes they are the same except the reference to which benefit it is.

    The whole WCA procress is the same and done by the same assessors.
    As far as they are concerned its just a different tick on a folder and makes no difference to what they do.

    As it will be classed as a new LC application then yes their will be an assessment period of 3 of your monthly UC periods.
    So depending just when in your period you are when you apply it varies between 12 and 16 weeks.
    You might feel better if you wait till near the end of a period to apply, but when you add in that wait before applying it ends up the same anyway.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  7. #7
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    If you did mean the PIP2 then although the questions are very similar they are judging different things at the assesment.

    ESA50/UC50 are about your ability to do (any) work and not about anything else.
    PIP2 is about how you cope with day to day life.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  8. #8
    Thanks Nuke.

    We've downloaded the UC50 form to apply for WCA and LCWRA.

    However, I haven't managed to get through to Universal Credit.

    Should I get in touch with them to officially apply or would it be okay to send my form and evidence straight to assessment?

    Health Assessment Advisory Service
    Mail Handling Site A
    Wolverhampton
    WV98 1SN

    Just worried that I send it straight to assesment address and it gets lost with no reference?

  9. #9
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    You have to be told to send a ESA/UC50, it's not an application for benefit in itself.

    If you just send one they won't know who you are.

    So you need to make an application for UC and say at the time of applying that you have a health condition that prevents you from working.
    They should then refer you to CHDA who will send you a UC50.

    Applying for UC is usually done online, it's difficult to do it otherwise.

    Sorry cant give a link from here but just google Apply for UC.

    Once you have done the online form you have to go to the JC to provide evidence of your identity.
    Last edited by nukecad; 07-23-2019 at 04:49 PM.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    You have to be told to send a ESA/UC50, it's not an application for benefit in itself.

    If you just send one they won't know who you are.

    So you need to make an application for UC and say at the time of applying that you have a health condition that prevents you from working.
    They should then refer you to CHDA who will send you a UC50.

    Applying for UC is usually done online, it's difficult to do it otherwise.

    Sorry cant give a link from here but just google Apply for UC.

    Once you have done the online form you have to go to the JC to provide evidence of your identity.
    Thank you so much for your reply but I’m a little confuseed.

    To recap: We already claim UC, im in the no work group but don't currently have LCW/LCWRA. We downloaded UC50 so I could get WCA as part of my current UC claim.

    So I can’t send the UC50 form I downloaded away to CHDA?

    I need to go through UC journal and request for it first?

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