Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: WTC with Disability Element - Change of Circumstances - Universal Credit

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    6

    WTC with Disability Element - Change of Circumstances - Universal Credit

    Hello

    Help and advice required please ….. I'm currently employed, work 21 hours per week at a little over minimum wage, and receive WTC with disability element (because of mental health limitations). Live alone in private rented and also receive a small amount of housing benefit under legacy system. Same situation and benefits for last few years.

    Have been signed off sick since start of April and been receiving SSP only from employer. My understanding is that SSP gets paid for 28 weeks and should I still be sick after 28 weeks, I'd then have one month to tell the Tax Credits office. I haven't needed to tell the Tax Credits Office anything yet and have been receiving my WTC with disability element, monthly, and in the normal way.

    Due to the nature of my current job, I don't think I'll be well enough to return once the 28 weeks are up, but do think I could run a self-employed business working 21 hours per week from home. I have read all the stricter rules for self-employment, the need to make profits of at least 21 hours x minimum wage rate, etc etc. Thinking is that this would allow me to keep my WTC because all the calculations I've done say I'd be quite a bit worse off under UC.

    Having read the notification rules for change of circumstances, it doesn't actually say I'd need to tell the Tax Credits Office if I moved from being employed to self-employed, so long as my overall income for the tax year remained within the income estimate range for 2019/20 as specified on my Tax Credits Annual Review from a few months ago. I think it would. To my mind I'd simply report my total income for 2019/20 (mix of employed and then self-employed) next May/June time in the normal way at the time of my next scheduled Annual Review.

    So my questions are:

    1) Could I move from being employed to self-employed and not notify Tax Credits office?

    2) If it's thought I would have to notify, would I be transferred / migrated somehow to UC and thus be worse off?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,414
    You'll need to notify HMRC if you take up self-employment so Tax Credits will find out from them if you don't tell them yourself. I'm not sure whether you must notify them, but IMO it#'s better to be safe than sorry. This should not trigger a change to UC in any case as it's not a new claim.

  3. #3
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoodle View Post
    You'll need to notify HMRC if you take up self-employment so Tax Credits will find out from them if you don't tell them yourself. I'm not sure whether you must notify them, but IMO it#'s better to be safe than sorry. This should not trigger a change to UC in any case as it's not a new claim.
    Thank you for that advice noisynoodle and sorry for delay in replying, I've been ill.

    I have another question - if I don't go back to my employment after 28 weeks of SSP and don't feel well enough to set up as self-employed, my understanding is that I'd claim New Style ESA and my housing benefit would continue as an existing claim under the legacy system. In other words, I wouldn't enter the UC system?

    And in that scenario how would they finalise my WTCs? For 2019/20 so far these have been based on 2018/19 employment income (approx. £8,000). But since I have been on mostly SSP in 2019/20, my employment income from 6th April 2019 to now is only about £2,700.

    Assuming I will not work again in 2019/20 and be receiving New Style ESA from now on, will Tax Credits office re-calculate my WTCs for 2019/20 based on the approx £2,700 of income because is it is more than £2,500 less than my 2018/19 income?

    In other words, my entitlement to WTCs from 6th April 2019 to now will be more than I've actually been paid and I will receive a lump sum on finalisation and ending of my claim?

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,414
    I think you're correct that you wouldclaim New Style ESA and retain HB so not need to move to UC, but someone will correct me if I'm in error.

    As far as WTC is concerned, when you close your claim they will recalculate based on this year's actual income. Whether you will be owed anyting depends on how much your income has fallen. This is an extract from the Benefits and Work web site explaining how it works:

    "For drops in income:
    if your 2019/20 income falls by more than £2,500, from your 2018/19 income, your final tax credit award will be calculated using your 2019/20 income plus £2,500,
    if your 2019/20 income falls by less than £2,500, your final tax credit award will be calculated using your 2018/19 income.
    For example, if in 2018/19 your income was £10,000 and in 2019/20 your income is £5,000, the fall is more than £2,500. Therefore, your 2019/20 final tax credit award would be calculated based on your 2019/20 income plus £2,500, so an income of £7,500."

  5. #5
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,435
    If you have paid sufficent NI contributions in the last 2-3 years the you would be able to claim NS ESA instead of UC.

    Be aware that if you contact them to ask for an application form they will try to push/badger you into claiming UC anyway, it's endemic in the system.

    So you have to be clear and insistent that it's New Style CB ESA that you want to claim and not UC.

    It's probably better to download the application form yourself, complete it, and then contact the Jobcentre+ to make a new claim appointment and take the completed form with you.
    See this to download the application form: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...esa-claim-form
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  6. #6
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    6
    Thanks noisynoodle, very useful. Also led me to the advice below from the RevenueBenefits website which explains what was also puzzling me ie. if they finalised my 2019/20 tax credits claim, say, later this month, what would happen if I suddenly was able to work again in, say, January. Answer is that without a claim for UC, they'd wait until after 5th April 2020 to finalise as it says here:

    "Claims finishing mid-year (no UC claim)

    Claims can also end mid way through a tax year for a variety of reasons. Once a person’s entitlement ceases, their claim will end. For example, their claim will end if their working hours fall below the required number, if they move in with a partner or if they are no longer responsible for a child or qualifying young person.
    In some cases, claims can continue for a period of time after the change. This is called the ‘four week run-on’. The four week run-on was introduced in its original form from 6 April 2007.
    When a claim ends mid-year, payments will cease (subject to the four-week run-on) but the claimant will still go through the ‘renewals’ process. This will take place following the end of the tax year. In cases where a claim has already ended during the tax year, provided the claimant does not claim UC in the same tax year, there won’t be a renewal as such (although it is still referred to as the renewals process) but they will receive the same forms in order to finalise their claim for the period of the their claim in the tax year just ended. So if a claim ends in September 2018, the claimant will receive forms between April and June 2019 which ask them to confirm their income for the 2018/19 tax year so that HMRC can issue a final award notice for the period April – September 2018."


    And thanks nukecad - I've definitely paid enough NICs or have enough credits while on SSP to claim New Style ESA. If I do go down that route, I'll follow your advice about the process. Have previously claimed ESA up to about 2015, been in the WRAG and done Permitted Work, so have some feel for what a nightmare the processes can be. I've also been reading some of your other posts about New Style ESA which again are essential reading and no doubt I'll have more questions should I go down that route.


    Thanks again.

  7. #7
    Small point but have you checked your tenancy agreement to see if you are allowed to run a business from there?
    I know some housing associations don't like you doing so, so it might be worth checking just in case, you don't want to end up being evicted for breaching your agreement.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    6
    Hi all,

    Update - my SSP finished recently after the 28 weeks allowed and I'm not well enough to return to work (either old employment or start self-employment as I considered above).

    Latest sick note runs until January.

    Followed advice above and started claim for New Style ESA.

    Got call from local Jobcentre to arrange new ESA claim appointment which will be in a few days time. Have completed the New Style ESA form no problems and will be taking this along to Jobcentre. So far so good.

    But on phone, Jobcentre person asked whether I'd paid enough NI contributions given I've been on SSP for 28 weeks and also had a few months of sickness in 2018 when I also received SSP. I've checked my NI record online which says 2017/18 is full but 2018/19 is not full. Spoke to HMRC employee helpline and they said looks like I've paid or got credits for 50 weeks in 2018/19 which would appear to fulfil my reading of the New Style ESA criteria.

    However Jobcentre person said NI credits not same as actual payments of Class 1 NI for ESA purposes so I might not qualify. Suggested I claim UC as well in case my ESA claim gets rejected on insufficient NI grounds. Otherwise a few weeks down the line if my ESA claim is rejected, should I then claim UC, they wouldn't backdate it to the day after my SSP ended.

    So I've gone ahead and also claimed UC online and have got a UC appointment at local Jobcentre - asked for immediately after my ESA appointment in a few days time. Upshot is one hour at Jobcentre with ESA claim and then one hour with another person on UC claim.

    I already claim Housing Benefit under the legacy system.

    My questions are:

    1) Does what I've been advised and done in claiming UC seem reasonable?

    2) What are the advantages of claiming ESA over UC? [I don't have any savings, but do have small pension income of circa £18 per week]

    3) I phoned up about ESA a couple of days before my SSP finished, so if I get that I think I should get it from the day after my SSP finished, but my UC claim is a week or so after SSP finished. Will they backdate my UC claim? Do I need to ask for it to be backdated?

    All advice gratefully received!

    Many thanks

  9. #9
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,435
    That all does seem reasonable in your circumstances.

    You need to have actually paid 26 weeks worth of NI in one of the last 2 tax years, and then have a total of 50 weeks paid/credited in each of those 2 years.
    So I think the person at DWP is just being careful about if you qualify because they can't see your NI detsils to be certain.

    You can claim UC as well, indeed if you want any income related benefits them you have to. (Except in certain circumstances that don't apply here).

    UC is income related and so is affcted by earnings, income, & savings.
    NS ESA isn't affected by savings, but private pensions above £85 a week do have an affect on that.

    As you have already made a claim for UC them your housing benefit will now become UC housing element and will now be paid monthly.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #10
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    That all does seem reasonable in your circumstances.

    You need to have actually paid 26 weeks worth of NI in one of the last 2 tax years, and then have a total of 50 weeks paid/credited in each of those 2 years.
    So I think the person at DWP is just being careful about if you qualify because they can't see your NI detsils to be certain.

    You can claim UC as well, indeed if you want any income related benefits them you have to. (Except in certain circumstances that don't apply here).

    UC is income related and so is affcted by earnings, income, & savings.
    NS ESA isn't affected by savings, but private pensions above £85 a week do have an affect on that.

    As you have already made a claim for UC them your housing benefit will now become UC housing element and will now be paid monthly.
    Hi nukecad,

    Want to tell you what happened since my last post on 13th November, might help others as well, and have some more queries please.

    Back in November I'd just applied for New Style ESA and although I had been claiming House Benefit under legacy system for some time, I'd been convinced by JobCentre supervisor to claim UC in case New Style ESA was rejected on my NI contribution record. Told UC could not be backdated, ESA decision might take weeks/months, so could be left without funds if ESA application failed.

    You've probably heard before what I nightmare a dual claim of UC and New Style ESA is. UC being all online, ESA being all paper based and dealt with in different geographical locations. Taking the same ID documents to same place at different times, for example. Both requesting same sick notes, etc.

    Just before Xmas got UC50 in post then from same place got ESA50 a week later. Told by DWP to do UC50 only and then send back ESA50 with just a scribbled note saying, dual claim UC50 already submitted. This seemed to work, only got the one reminder about the ESA50 then they stopped.

    Went for f2f WCA last month and now received a UCD81 letter in my journal advising LCWRA which is good because my health worsened over last few months.

    I've read some of your previous posts about the waiting time before you get the extra UC money - I'm getting my 3rd monthly payment of UC about now, so I think I should get the extra UC money in my 5th monthly payment, so starting from my payment in mid-April?

    Now, what do I do about the ESA side of things? Does this decision put me in the Support Group for ESA purposes? And instead of the £73.10 per week I've been getting so far, do I get an increased rate of ESA, I've seen a figure of about £110 per week somewhere?

    And while I assume UC should tell ESA about their decision, I've no confidence they talk to each other at all, so I'm thinking about printing out the UCD81 letter and sending it by post to the ESA people. Good idea?

    As I see it, if I do get an increased rate of ESA and there is still a Support Group category, does that mean in theory that I could receive New Style ESA for longer than 12 months?

    And in terms of money, obviously in my current UC payment schedule, the ESA is taken off £ for £ to arrive at the one payment of UC. So assume this would continue if there is an increased rate of ESA and I'd just get the extra UC money from being in LCWRA?

    I do understand that if there was an increased rate of ESA, I wouldn't end up with any more money apart from the LCWRA payment under UC, but it could matter to me I think because I'm currently disputing some unpaid holiday pay with my old employer and if successful it might pay me out as a lump sum at some point over next few months. If this happens, then with UC being income related I assume I'd lose all my UC that month, but with the ESA being contribution based, it would not be affected and still paid?

    One other complication I had which might help someone is that the council did get told I'd claimed UC, and paid me for another 2 weeks I think it was. I did take a cash advance from UC, so I was okay for the transition period. But then my council tax shot up the next month to the full rate and I only noticed this by seeing the payment taken from my bank. I then had to go back to the council and tell them to reinstate the council tax relief which they did, but it obviously wasn't automatic or a smooth transition process.

    Would be really good to get your advice on all this when you have chance.

    Many thanks

Similar Threads

  1. would a change in personal circumstances mean switching to universal credit?
    By diesel70 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 27-06-19, 17:59
  2. Universal Credit Housing Element for Social Housing
    By NoPainNoGain in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-03-19, 12:22
  3. Is it possible to change from LCW to LCWRA on Universal Credit
    By FibroClaimant in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 27-09-18, 12:40
  4. Do I have to change to universal credit?
    By shipperley1017 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-09-17, 09:15
  5. Universal credit and Carers element
    By Bigkz in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-04-17, 13:59

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •