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Thread: Deferring occupational pension past age 60

  1. #11
    Thanks for that, I'll have a look must have been the older version I was looking at.
    We seem to now have concensus and agreement with what CAB and DWP have told me in that I can defer past 60 and not fall foul to any rules.
    Wish someone who has actually done this recently would say so to put our minds completely at rest!
    Enjoy your drink Nukecad, and thanks for your input Walker .

  2. #12
    so very very glad this has been clarified, Tony

    what a ridiculous system it all is

    I cant tell you how stressed/distressed I have been trying to find out or work out the 'right answer' to it all
    and so I am extremely grateful to you for making your post today

  3. #13
    Here is one of the examples from the DMG that seems incorrect in the light of our discussions:

    From what date should the DM take notional income into account

    51553 Take notional income into account from the date that the person could expect to get the income if an application was made

    Example Bernard receives ESA(IR). He is 61. On 1 November the DM receives evidence that Bernard is entitled to a personal pension but has not bought an annuity or drawn an income. The pension fund holder states that Bernard’s scheme can provide an income. In Bernard’s case the maximum amount of income, based on the GAD tables, is £23 a week. Once an application is made it would take the pension fund holder six weeks to arrange for the maximum income to be paid. The DM decides that Bernard should be treated as having a notional income of £23 a week from 13 December.

  4. #14
    that's the one
    see its very confusing because it implies if I COULD get my pension at 60 then this would indicate it would be counted from then, whether i took it or not
    is an OCCUPATIONAL pension treated differently?
    what about a SIPP ? (that is what my divorce settlement pension % will become)

    its too late for this
    and my head is too weary

    to be honest i am amazed you actually got a written response when you wrote to dwp
    when i have asked them (by phone and writing) to give me written clarification on an issue - absolutely nothing is done
    no letter
    no call
    no confirmation

    NB - I will start a new thread on this if you would prefer
    Last edited by walker; 11-16-2019 at 11:39 PM.

  5. #15
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyinWestWales View Post
    Here is one of the examples from the DMG that seems incorrect in the light of our discussions:
    Yes I'd agree that with the changes to pension ages that example is now useless, because at 61 Bernard would now still be under SPC age.
    So 51551 now overrules 51553, making it redundant, and the question of Notional Income at age 61 no longer applies.
    (I said you had to get semi-legal when reading this stuff).

    It was no doubt written when Bernards SPC age would have been 60 (same as a female of the same age) but his State Pension age would have been 65.
    Of course that has now changed as the State Pension age for females has increased to match the male State Pension age.
    So a males SPC age is now the same as his SP age, and the 51553 and it's example is redundant.
    The DMG hasn't been updated to reflect that change yet.

    The DMG does get updated occasionally, but not so often nowadays as it will be due a major revision once IR ESA gets Managed Migrated to UC.
    DMG only applies to 'Old Style' benefits, 'New Style' benefits and UC are covered by the ADM - Advice for Decision Makers.
    (All more confusing fun due to the bodged introduction of UC.).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  6. #16
    So we seem clear that deferring pensions will not be penalised prior to Pension credit age from the Dwp perspective but what about regards housing benefit?

  7. #17
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyinWestWales View Post
    So we seem clear that deferring pensions will not be penalised prior to Pension credit age from the Dwp perspective but what about regards housing benefit?
    Interesting one, Housing Benefit is administered by the council and not by the DWP.

    The relevant guidance is- the Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit guidance.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...uidance-part-b
    It's old but still current; there will be revisions and memos out there, though they may not affect this question.

    Section BP2 would seem to be the guidance need here. (Although I've not previously read any of this guidance).

    "Possible entitlement to other retirement pension income/deferred income from occupational pension schemes" starts at P2.680 onwards

    Jumping to P2.684 it again talks about 'a claimant who has attained the qualifying age for Pension Credit' so you have to assume that the same rules apply as for ESA.
    You also have to assume that P2.685 is also qualified by that statement. (It refers to the same legislation).

    ie. That private/occupational pensions deferred before Pension Credit age are not classed as Notional Income or Notional Capital for calculations of HB. (Until PC age is reached).
    And as we established above Pension Credit age is now the same as State Pension age.

    What would happen after State Pension age would seem to depend on if you qualify for Guaranteed Credit in PC or not.
    https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information...using-benefit/
    If you get the Guarantee Credit part of Pension Credit your income and savings are not taken into account so you may get your rent paid in full by Housing Benefit.
    To be absolutely sure I'd ask your particular council, (maybe refering to those paragraphs in the guidance?)
    Last edited by nukecad; 11-19-2019 at 02:12 AM.
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    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  8. #18
    goodness
    the housing benefit issue never even crossed my mind!

  9. #19
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker View Post
    goodness
    the housing benefit issue never even crossed my mind!
    I'd also check your particular councils rules for Council Tax Relief if you are getting that.
    Each council sets it's own rules, but there may be something general it that guidance linked in my previous post.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #20


    there is always something else,
    is there no end to it!!!!????

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