Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: ESA and Carers allowance questions.

  1. #1

    ESA and Carers allowance questions.

    Hi folks,

    I have been for a long number of years in the support group of ESA Contribution Based (we have a disabled child and get DLA High rate in both parts, and Tax Credits for him)

    We are not entitled to any income related benefits such as UC other than the Tax credits we get for our child.

    ON my ESA (CB) I also get an adult addition for my partner which was added 12 years or so ago under IB because we had a child, but that is due to end I believe in April 2020 due to the IB to ESA transitional rules., and I will revert to the standard support group rate.

    My partner has her own disability and was getting DLA until now, but has failed in the PiP assessment as the criteria is different, we have been through MR and appeal.

    Because my Partner was on DLA herself in the past and anyway because as I was already getting an adult addition for her in my ESA £55 or thereabouts obviously she couldn't get any carers allowance for our child on DLA, but we are thinking about applying for this in April 2020 as I will loose the money I already get for her under the Adult Addition in my ESA payment (now just classified as Transitional protection)

    1 So we are thinking of just waiting until I loose the money I get for my partner in April 2020 and then she will put in a claim for carers allowance for her child. Does this seem ok as I know there are lots of twists and turns in the benefit rules.

    2 I just noticed when checking what ESA I might get after April when transitional protection ends for me, and I loose my partners money, and I notice there is also a couples rate of £151 or so.
    Would I be right in thinking the extra for my partner in the couple rate is income means tested and that anyway she can only get one payment or instead a carers allowance for our child ?

    3 I may have asked before, am I right in thinking that my partner applying for carers allowance for our child is NOT a trigger or change of circumstances for Universal Credit to kick in, which we don't want?

    I just find all the rules so complicated and I get totally lost in the detail so any clarification really appreciated.
    Many Thanks.
    John

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,980
    We have covered this before in your previous threads, but fair enough:

    1. All Transitional Additions from the IB-ESA transfer will end on 5th April next year.
    That's not new and it was always the case, they expected most peoples TA to have been erroded by then as standard ESA rates caught up reducing the amount of TA each year. (Then came the benefit freeze). But there were always going to be some who had a higher TA that was going to be lost in 2020.
    I expect there will be a bit of shouting about it when it happens, but as it's been in the legislation since IB-ESA first started then I don't expect much to come of that.

    2. Yes the couples rate in ESA is Income Related, so from what you say then you would not qualify.
    (From your previous threads then I believe that it's savings/capital that disqualifies you from IR benefits).

    3. Carers Allowance is not one of the benefits that is being migrated to UC so you can still make new claims for CA without it causing migration to UC.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  3. #3
    Thanks a lot Nukecad.

    Just another little thing crossed my mind, when they do remove the Transitional protection from my ESA (which was really extra money for my partner under IB adult addition because we had a child, and that was one of the reasons carers allowance couldn't be applied for our child, we could only receive one or the other, something called underlying entitlement or something like that) do you think that maybe somehow that underlying entitlement could still be in my claim after April 2020, even though we receive no money for it, and it could subsequently create problems later on for the separate carers allowance that will be claimed in April?

    Ok maybe I am being a little paranoid here, but the benefits system sometimes is so complicated.

    Last edited by johnsmi; 03-12-19 at 14:19.

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,980
    You should forget about just what the money was for before ESA, it doesn't matter.

    Once you transferrred to ESA any benefit money that you previously got that was above the standard ESA rate simply became the ESA Transitional Addition.
    It didn't matter what that extra money was for before it's now just TA. (Although there are a few very special exceptions to that).

    Underlying Entitlement - or just not claimed yet?

    If you have an underlying entitlement to benefit 'X' it means that benefit 'X' has already been claimed, but it isn't paid because you have benefit 'Z'.
    If/when benefit 'Z' stops benefit 'X' should then come into payment in it's own right.
    Of course you will need to remind them that benefit 'Z' has stopped and so benefit 'X' should now be paid, don't expect it to happen automatically.

    If however benefit 'X' hasn't been claimed then you don't yet have an underlying entitlement - You just have an entitlement that you haven't yet claimed.
    It's a subtle distinction but means that in that case you'd have to make a new claim for benefit 'X' when benefit 'Z' stops.

    So did your partner already make a claim for CA which is still in force, or did she not bother because it would overlap?
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #5
    Thanks Nukecad.

    No she hasn't claimed any carers allowance as yet, she was in fact on DLA as she has her own disability, but has just lost the DLA to PIP changeover (been through MR and appeal, she has severe hearing loss and only got 2 points for hearing aids, she got a paper based appeal done, but going through the descriptors she felt that it would be a struggle to get the points needed, but all that is another story)

    Yes we felt a claim for carers allowance would overlap with the transitional protection I am getting on ESA and maybe with her now lost DLA entitlement.

    As stated we are waiting for that transitional protection to come off my ESA in april 2020, then she will put in a claim for carers allowance for our child (he is on DLA both parts high rate)

    My understanding is that there is no way I could continue to get that ESA transitional protection while at the same time she would be applying for and getting carers allowance, as again my understanding (though could be wrong) is that somehow the rules forbid this., as somehow it is buried deep in the rules for TP

    Another thing is, she could apply for carers allowance now, and I would probably loose that TP, but I would prefer the TP on my ESA just to end naturally as I feel that someone at the department bringing up my ESA entitlement could maybe somehow trigger an early re-assessment for me.

    Thanks for all your help, I know I am probably not explaining this all too well.
    Last edited by johnsmi; 04-12-19 at 12:41.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,980
    Quote Originally Posted by johnsmi View Post
    Another thing is, she could apply for carers allowance now, and I would probably loose that TP, but I would prefer the TP on my ESA just to end naturally as I feel that someone at the department bringing up my ESA entitlement could maybe somehow trigger an early re-assessment for me.
    Fair enough, that is your choice to make.

    The overlapping benefit rules are diffficult to understand when it comes to ESA TA's that arose because of an Adult or Child Dependency Increase in the old benefit.
    I've done my brain in trying to make sense of it in the Decision Makers Guidance. (I won't quote any of it here to save you brain-ache).

    As you say it's burried deep but in the end it does seem that your TA would be affected by your wife claiming CA.
    Not because of overlapping benefits, (they wouldn't be in your case), but because it would be a relevant change of circumstances that would reduce or stop TA if the TA was replacement for an Adult/Child Dependancy Increase.

    Having sad that it's your choice it still may be worth considering your wife claiming CA now before your TA ends in 2020, it depends on how much your TA is currently.
    It should tell you on the anual rates letter that you got last March/April how much the addition is.

    Carers Allowance is currently £66.15 a week.
    If your TA is less than that then you would be better off as a couple by your wife claiming CA.
    This is because your ESA is entirely Contribution Based, so although you would lose the TA the standard CB ESA Support Group amount of £111.65 would still be payable.

    Your wife would be paid CA because the CB ESA is then your ESA and would no longer include any amount for her, so her CA cannot be overlapping with it.
    (If you claimed CA then that would overlap with your ESA).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  7. #7
    Thanks so much Nukecad for digging into the detail, very much appreciated.

    I receive just over £166 a week ESA CB including TP, so in actual fact we would be better off between now and when the TP ends by claiming carers and for tax reasons as well (I do get an occupational pension) and that TP is taxed whereas if my partner had carers allowance she would get it total I believe as it would be well under her personal allowance.

    The main reason we just want TP to end naturally (and maybe I am a little paranoid here) is that I feel that anyone bringing my ESA claim up at the DWP side on their computer to deal with the carers allowance application could somehow hasten or trigger an early ESA re-assessment for me.( I believe there is a question relating to this on the carers allowance application, asking if anyone gets any money on the carers behalf and I believe that my ESA TP would fall into this bracket)

    I just feel that when the ESA TP ends in April she will then put in the carers claim and hopefully my ESA won't have to be looked at, we can just say on carers application that no one is receiving any money for my partner, unless of course there is even more complicated rules and she is still somehow in my ESA claim though receiving no money.

    When you say in an earlier reply "Of course you will need to remind them that benefit 'Z' has stopped and so benefit 'X' should now be paid, don't expect it to happen automatically" would the mere fact of just filling in the carers application remind them and I don't have to say" Oh yes I do believe I used to get TP because of an old IB rule" so they would have to look at my claim after all?

    Oh I do know I probably come across as having total paranoia about this, but in the past I have rang the DWP too much about my ESA and think in a few occasions was put through to the medical section and got a few medicals as a result, so now I just contract them as little as possible.

    Thanks so much again Nukecad, and I just noticed, sorry for putting the thread in the wrong forum.



    John
    Last edited by johnsmi; 05-12-19 at 19:18.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,980
    Quote Originally Posted by johnsmi View Post
    When you say in an earlier reply "Of course you will need to remind them that benefit 'Z' has stopped and so benefit 'X' should now be paid, don't expect it to happen automatically" would the mere fact of just filling in the carers application remind them and I don't have to say"
    That doesn't apply. - Because she hasn't yet made a claim she doesn't have an underlying entitlement, so there is nothing to remind them of.
    If you wait until the TA ends then it's simply a new CA claim that she is making, and you don't even have to mention the previous TA at all.

    PS. I hadn't even noticed which forum it was in; I just look at all 'New Posts' that I haven't seen previously seen by using the button on the left of the menu bar.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    That doesn't apply. - Because she hasn't yet made a claim she doesn't have an underlying entitlement, so there is nothing to remind them of.
    If you wait until the TA ends then it's simply a new CA claim that she is making, and you don't even have to mention the previous TA at all.

    PS. I hadn't even noticed which forum it was in; I just look at all 'New Posts' that I haven't seen previously seen by using the button on the left of the menu bar.
    Thank you very much Nukecad for all the excellent advice you have given me and to others on this forum. I am really thankful as I am sure others are too.



    John

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,980
    IMPORTANT UPDATE - Transitional Additions are no longer stopping on 5th April, a new law has been passed.

    For more details see this:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...060#post170060
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

Similar Threads

  1. attendance allowance and carers allowance
    By cookgeorge2 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 17-08-19, 10:54
  2. Carers allowance versus Carers Premium
    By David69 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-04-17, 16:04
  3. Carers allowance. Does your savings affect your entitlement to Carers allowance?
    By karljt in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-04-15, 15:16
  4. Attendance allowance and carers allowance
    By pg1973 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-11-13, 09:52
  5. Disability allowance and carers allowance help
    By Amc2 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-03-13, 20:26

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •