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Thread: Help with UC payment

  1. #1

    Help with UC payment

    I’ve recently moved which triggered a natural migration to UC from ESA Wrag. I received my first UC payment which just included my standard allowance and housing benefit but there was no LCW payment. Previously I was on ESA Support for years with no gaps up until my WCA in August 2018 resulting in a decision to place me in the ESA Wrag. Am I not entitled to the LCW component then? It doesn’t seem fair if I’m not, as I’m financially worse off.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Your WRAG status from ESA is (should be) carried over as an LCW entitlement in UC.

    That is stated in law, see this for more info:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...l=1#post133915

    As long as you first claimed ESA before 3 April 2017, and have been on ESA continuously since, then the UC-LCW element of £126.11 is payable.
    If you first claimed ESA after 3 April 2017 then UC-LCW element is not payable.

    They can sometimes (usually/always) be slow getting the information needed from ESA to add the element to your UC claim and start the payment.

    Check which conditionality group you are in, I believe it should be on your journal.
    With LCW you should be in the "Work Preparation Group".

    I'd also put a note on the payments section of the journal to ask why LCW element has not been paid.
    Last edited by nukecad; 19-02-20 at 07:10.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  3. #3
    Thank you very much for your help Nukecad. You've been most helpful.

  4. #4
    I phoned the UC hotline number and after some initial heated conversation the agent looked into the history of my ESA claim. To my horror which I completely forgot about, (blame depression & poor memory) she found that I was actually claiming Jobseekers from 5th April 2017 to 24th May 2017 as I had failed my WCA for ESA Support and requested a MR. The agent told me I wasn't liable to receive the LCW component because of this. I feel that this is the fault of the DWP as I had been on ESA long term before then and was automatically put on Jobseekers when I requested an MR. I received a positive outcome and was put back on ESA support. Would I still be liable for the LCW component? It seems unfair if I don't receive it as it's not like I was claiming ESA for the first time after the cut off date. Please advise, thanks.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    It sound to me that the person on the phone knows a bit of the law, but not all of it. (The only surprise there is that they did know a bit).

    Although you were on JSA and then went back on ESA after 3 April 2017, it does sound as if that was a reinstatement of the previous ESA following MR/appeal and not a new claim.
    So it is still the original ESA award from before you claimed JSA during MR.

    If it had been a brand new ESA claim then they would be correct that LCW would not be payable, but if it had been a brand new claim then you wouldn't have been paid WRAG in ESA either.

    It's quite simple, if you were getting paid for WRAG in ESA when you migrated then you also get paid UC-LCW element.

    Just to make sure - You were getting paid the WRAG element in ESA before you moved to UC weren't you?

    If you are not sure then tell us what you were being paid as ESA and we can work it out.
    (Single person being paid the WRAG component would be getting £102.15 a week, without the WRAG it would be £73.10 a week).

    If WRAG was being paid with your ESA when you migrated then LCW should be paid with UC after you migrate, no if's or but's.
    If WRAG wasn't being paid with ESA then LCW is not payable in UC either, no if's or but's.

    So now you ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration of the decision not to pay the LCW element of UC.
    Simply point out that you were being paid the WRAG component in ESA immediately before you migrated to UC and so LCW is payable in UC as well.

    It's as simple as that and a Decision Maker would know that; if you can get a MR past your Work Coach/Case Manager to a Decision Maker.

    If you need help with the MR then you can find local advisors by putting your postcode in here: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser
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  6. #6

    Smile

    It sound to me that the person on the phone knows a bit of the law, but not all of it. (The only surprise there is that they did know a bit).

    I know lol.

    It's quite simple, if you were getting paid for WRAG in ESA when you migrated then you also get paid UC-LCW element.

    That's good to know.

    Just to make sure - You were getting paid the WRAG element in ESA before you moved to UC weren't you?

    Yes I was on ESA WRAG and receiving £102.15 a week before migrating to UC.


    If WRAG was being paid with your ESA when you migrated then LCW should be paid with UC after you migrate, no if's or but's.
    If WRAG wasn't being paid with ESA then LCW is not payable in UC either, no if's or but's.

    Ok that's what I thought! It feels like it's any excuse not to pay out any money with the DWP.

    So now you ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration of the decision not to pay the LCW element of UC.
    Simply point out that you were being paid the WRAG component in ESA immediately before you migrated to UC and so LCW is payable in UC as well.

    I asked the UC agent on the phone to request an MR for the decision not to pay the LCW element of UC and she told me I couldn't do that for a payment only on a decision with a WCA result! Grr.

    It's as simple as that and a Decision Maker would know that; if you can get a MR past your Work Coach/Case Manager to a Decision Maker.

    I think I'll have to make an appointment with my work coach to sort this out and get her to contact a Decision Maker then.

    If you need help with the MR then you can find local advisors by putting your postcode in here: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser

    Thank you very much for your help.

  7. #7
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredaFerret View Post
    I asked the UC agent on the phone to request an MR for the decision not to pay the LCW element of UC and she told me I couldn't do that for a payment only on a decision with a WCA result! Grr.
    That's a common tactic with UC - 'You can't have a MR because there hasn't been a decision'.
    (And often if you request a MR on your journal it will just be ignored).
    As you suspect it has no basis in law and is just penny pinching.

    Of course there has been a decision, - a decision not to pay the LCW element.
    So you have a legal right to challenge that decision.

    It's a problem with letting Case Managers make some 'minor' decisions without proper training, rather than having Decision Makers deal with them exclusively.
    To be fair to them it's not realy their fault, if they haven't had the proper training then they don't even know that they are wrong, they do what they have been taught rather than what the law says.

    If you get a 'professional' advisor onboard to help you the DWP often (not always) pay more attention to what is being said by the advisor.

    It it comes to it then the tribunal courts know about this UC tactic and will let you lodge an appeal without having a MR first if the UC idiots won't let you have a MR in the first place.

    As you can imagine HM court and tribunal service are not happy about all this unnecessary work being caused by the DWP's penny pinching.
    Last edited by nukecad; 22-02-20 at 07:31.
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  8. #8
    Here are the annoying responses I've received today. They can't help me so I've no choice but to seek the help from a professional advisor. I'm going to contact a local Cititzen's Advice Outreach centre. Thanks for your help btw, you've been amazing!


    24 Feb 2020 at 8:40am
    Hi B
    Sorry to hear you are having problems receiving the information you require.
    I will forward your message to your case manager to clarify the information available as unfortunately work coaches do not deal with payments, limited capability for work decisions or have direct access to a decision maker.
    Regards, Natalie
    Send reply
    Natalie

    Cardiff Charles Street Jobcentre Plus

    24 Feb 2020 at 9:30am
    Hi B,

    I can see you do receive Limited capability for work however since April 2017 we do not pay any extra element for this group so your award is correct and there is no extra payment owed to you.

    Kind Regards
    Catrin

    Bangor Service Centre

  9. #9
    Senior Member beau's Avatar
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    If Citizens Advice are unable to help you your local council or county council may have a Welfare Rights Dept. Another alternative would be an Unemployed Workers Centre if you have one near you.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Catrin needs some training about the law as it applies to limited capability, and migrations from ESA that was initially claimed before April 2017.

    The UC-LCW element payment amount is still published every year. Obviously it is still payable in certain circumstances or they wouldn't publish it.

    Probably not her fault, she's just going with what she has been told in training above what a claimant is trying to tell her.
    They will simply have told her that it is not paid without saying that it is still paid in some circumstances.

    Hopefully the CM or a DM will put her right.
    Or is Catrin the Case manager?

    Just in case you need it: (If you can be bothered with her anymore then you could point Catrin to this)

    The DWP decision makers guidance, ADM Chapter M6, paragraph M6188 (on page 26)
    https://assets.publishing.service.go...5040/admm6.pdf

    M6188 The removal of the WRAC and the LCW element does not apply where continuous
    entitlement to old style ESA and NI credits began before 3.4.17.
    See the Appendix
    to Chapter V6 (ESA: Assessment phase and component), and the Appendix to
    Chapter F5 (LCWRA element), for where transitional provisions apply.
    When you next contact them ask/tell them to refer to that paragraph of their guidance.
    They can't sensibly argue against their own Decision Makers guidance.

    EDIT-
    PS. If you want the actual legislation rather than the DWP guidance then it's:

    The Employment and Support Allowance and Universal Credit (Miscellaneous Amendments and Transitional and Savings Provisions) Regulations 2017
    SCHEDULE 2, Transitional and savings provisions, Paragraphs 8 & 13

    (I won't quote them but here's a link)
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/204/schedule/2
    Last edited by nukecad; 24-02-20 at 11:03.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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