Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 62

Thread: Need Help Please. PIP Tribunal Template.

  1. #1

    Need Help Please. PIP Tribunal Template.

    Hi,

    Can any one offer a template or advice on how to write out my tribunal submission please?

    I've got an idea of what I want to write but I'm not sure how it should be laid out.

    Thanks for any help.
    Last edited by dinkmack; 17-03-20 at 21:04.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,826
    It depends just what your tribunal is about and just what you are challenging.

    But in general simply write it as a letter, make it clear and easy to read.

    Don't do it until you have seen the DWP's 'court bundle' and so know just what you need to refute.

    Keep it to the point, don't go rambling on, make sure that anything you write is directly relevant.

    Try not to make it too long, you are not writing a novel.
    2 to 4 sides of A4 is usually long enough, some would say even that is too long.
    If you need more than that you are probably rambling, look to cut out unnecessary parts.

    If you do find your self getting longer than four pages and can't see what to cut then you should go and see a local advice organisation who can help you focus on the right things.

    Use paragraphs to seperate different argument points, and use bullet points to emphasise things.

    If refuting a particular statement made by the assessor/dwp then give a reference to any document that contains it.

    DON'T resort to calling the assessor or DM a liar, stick to showing that what they said was wrong and why.

    The court is only looking at the correct application of benefit law, - whether you fit a descriptor or not is law - personalities, etc. are not the law.

    You are not expected to be a lawyer though. (So don't go quoting case law unless really necessary to get a point across).
    (A professional advisor may quote case law in their submission if they make one, but the claimant shouldn't usually).

    If challenging a particular descriptor then make what you say relevant to that particular descriptor.

    The old PIP sticky whilst not directly covering tribunals should give you some ideas of what is needed, and just reading Flymo's posts shows how to lay thing out in paragraphs and bullet points to make things clear.
    Bbe careful with any guidance or legislation quoted/linked, it is an old post so those references may not be up to date.
    It's still a useful general guide though.
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...me-reflections

    Overall if you have any doubt then go and get help from a local advice centre, (if they are still open and not self isolating).
    It's usually a good idea anyway, they do these all the time and they can see your paperwork to advise just what what to challenge and what's not important.
    You can find local advisors by putting your postcode in here: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser


    PS. It's quite likely (expected) that HMCTS will be suspending tribunals and other hearings due to Covid 19.
    So you may have a long wait for a tribunal hearing, unless they can do it on paper or by video link/phone.
    You can find the latest information here:
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...nd-preparation
    Last edited by nukecad; 18-03-20 at 13:16.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  3. #3
    Thank you so much for your detailed reply. It's very helpful.
    At the moment I'm at the reconsideration stage of PIP but I was advised to write it out as if I was presenting it to a tribunal.

    When refuting things that the HP has said is it always best to have medical evidence to back it up?

    Do you have any advice about how to refute the observations the HP made?
    My pip claim is for mental health, Agoraphobia, Anxiety and OCD.
    She said that my partner didn't offer any support during the assessment and that I had no problems completing the assessment but I was fidgeting throughout the assessment and was unable to make eye contact. Is this something that is worth mentioning?

    She also said I showed no signs of a cognitive impairment but that was because my partner was there to support me.
    Do I just need to get them to understand that this is because of the support and without it I couldn't of attended the assessment?

    Thanks for any help.

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,826
    That's just par for the course, and it's more likely to be laziness than any malicious intent.
    We know that the software they use 'suggests' answers for them, and if they don't change that suggestion then that's what goes in the report.

    However I wouldn't say that those two things alone would be sufficent to make a case for you, those are just general observations.
    Many people make the mistake at MR/appeal of arguing about things that don't count or don't matter.
    (The classic case is arguing about the assessors qualifications, when in law they don't need to have any qualifications at all so it's irrelevent).

    You need to show that the points that have been recomended/awarded for one or more of the descriptors is too low, and show that you should have got more points.

    You are familiar with the descriptors and how they are scored aren't you?
    This is a good guide to the descriptors for each activity, what they mean, and what each points score means.
    https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-g...#guide-content

    You need to compare that with what you have been scored for each activity, and if you think you should have got more points for that activity then explain why, with evidence if possible.
    Do that for each activity and challenge the ones wher you think you should have scored higher.

    In the end it's all about scoring those points.
    So that's what MR/appeal comes down to, convincing the MR Decision Maker, or the tribunal court, that you should have been given more points than they gave you at first.

    How many points did you get for Daily Living? and how many for Mobility?
    Last edited by nukecad; 18-03-20 at 15:54.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #5
    Thank you, that's great. I didn't get any points. I was previously getting standard for daily living.

  6. #6
    Hi nukecad,

    I was just wondering, if my pip questionnaire already describes the difficulties I have with each activity/descriptor and the HP and DM disregarded it after my assessment, what difference is it going to make if I explain the difficulties again in my MR?

    Do you think it's because I didn't provide any medical evidence?

  7. #7
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,826
    Yes, if you think they have ignored something then challenge it.

    (That's exactly what I did in my sucessful ESA appeal years ago. I argued that the assessor and DM had never heard of the condition that stopped me working, so had simply ignored it and concentrated on a diffetent condition that I have but had never stopped me working).

    If you can provide medical evidence to back that up then all the better.
    Last edited by nukecad; 19-03-20 at 18:52.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    essex
    Posts
    97
    even though i had written and explained my issues on my PIP form also explained them again at the medical when asked to. When i got the full medical report if stated that i had not mentioned the issues. Hard to explain but if it was on the application form they said i didn't explain it at medical. And if i talked about it at the medical i hadn't written it on the application form. if i put the application form and report side by side it is easy to see they have lied. yes i know lie i a bad word
    Last edited by davy; 19-03-20 at 20:09.

  9. #9
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,826
    Fair enough in that case you simply point out that the report totally ignores the written evidence (PIP2 form) that you submitted.

    Of course that's assuming that what you wrote was relevant to the descriptors; if it wasn't relevant to the descriptors then that would be why it was ignored.

    Point out if you sent (or are now sending) any other evidence that backs up what you wrote/said.


    I'd normally advise that you get face to face help from a local advice centre, but looking on the professional advisors forum most if not all have stopped seeing people at the moment.
    You can still contact them by telephone/email and some are setting up Skype links, but it's more difficult as they won't be able to see your paperwork unless you can scan/photograph and email it.
    (They are about down to the level that we are with forums, but more private).

    It's not sure what will happen with tribunals, if you have to go that far.
    At the moment they are still sitting and still holding oral hearings, but you would expect that to stop soon.


    PS. If it helps its better to say that the assessor/DM 'was mistaken' rather than saying they lied.
    Last edited by nukecad; 20-03-20 at 09:08.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #10
    Thank you Nukecad, you've been a great help

Similar Threads

  1. PIP Claim Form Template
    By oldngrumpy in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-04-17, 11:43
  2. ESA Tribunal - desperately need help please!
    By whattodonow1 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-07-15, 20:54
  3. ESA mandatory reconsideration template letter
    By karljt in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 16-09-14, 09:04
  4. WE need your help as we need evidence about assistive technology:
    By aaatwal in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 14-05-14, 10:01

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •