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Thread: SDP, ESA, PIP, HB - What happens if you move into work/study?

  1. #1

    SDP, ESA, PIP, HB - What happens if you move into work/study?

    Hi,

    I am trying to find out my options for the future if my health changes. If you get SDP and are in the same position, it's akin to feeling like you live in no-mans land!

    I've been trying to research how these benefits are affected if you become employed or enter full-time education. Using the benefit calculators and reading the snippets of advice online, it's clear this is a really complicated, poorly understood area and fraught with DWP errors. Hopefully someone on here has been given advice or had experience with it.

    As I understand it, you can only make a new claim for working tax credits if you have been getting SDP. If you were to enter full-time employment:

    * How much HB would you still be entitled to?
    * PIP would likley be reduced.
    * Would you no longer qualify for any ESA e.g. the disability premiums or working group?
    * Council tax discount?

    If you subsequently started full-time education after some time in receipt of WTC:

    * Are you entitled to any ESA if unable to manage part-time work during study?
    * Could you receive HB as a student if previously on SDP?
    * Would it make more financial sense to do education before working?

    Lastly, if you became unwell again:

    * do you go back to on ESA/PIP/SDP ?
    * do you go on UC?

    If anyone could shed any light on any of this that would be so helpful. I've tried emailing citizens advice but no joy. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    TBH such a general question is never going to be able to be fully answered on any website or forum.
    CAB won't be able to answer it either, it's just too general.
    Too much depends on the individual circumstances of the claimant and just what education they will be doing.

    Until it is known EXACTLY what they are going to do (not what they may be intending to do) then there are too many variables, (If's, but's, unless's, only-if's, etc.), to give a proper answer.

    The work aspect on it's own is easier though.

    If you were to start full time work:

    HB - Only if you already get it, whether it can continue and how much will depend on your income.
    PIP - Not affected at all. Many disabled workers get PIP.
    ESA - More than 16 hours, or more than £140/week, then ESA is not payable at all. (And you can only claim WTC if you are working more than 16 hours).
    CTR - Depends on your income. New claims for CTR can be made by anyone it's not affected by UC.

    Note that doing full time work may affect you next PIP assessment if that work conflicts with your reason for claiming PIP.

    You would only had a month after starting work and the ESA/SDP ending to make a new WTC claim, after that the SDP gateway has closed and so it's UC.
    It can be done within that month, but you need to be refered to a 'special team' at HMRC to make a new WTC claim in these circumstances.

    Once a month has passed since SDP ended then any new claim for an IR benefit has to be UC.
    However also note that if you are still entitled to some HB then SDP can be included in that (once the ESA has ended).

    Full time or Part Time education and claiming benefits has different, and much more complicated, rules.
    Last edited by nukecad; 24-05-20 at 16:44.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    TBH such a general question is never going to be able to be fully answered on any website or forum.
    CAB won't be able to answer it either, it's just too general.
    Too much depends on the individual circumstances of the claimant and just what education they will be doing.

    Until it is known EXACTLY what they are going to do (not what they may be intending to do) then there are too many variables, (If's, but's, unless's, only-if's, etc.), to give a proper answer.

    The work aspect on it's own is easier though.

    If you were to start full time work:

    HB - Only if you already get it, whether it can continue and how much will depend on your income.
    PIP - Not affected at all. Many disabled workers get PIP.
    ESA - More than 16 hours, or more than £140/week, then ESA is not payable at all. (And you can only claim WTC if you are working more than 16 hours).
    CTR - Depends on your income. New claims for CTR can be made by anyone it's not affected by UC.

    Note that doing full time work may affect you next PIP assessment if that work conflicts with your reason for claiming PIP.

    You would only had a month after starting work and the ESA/SDP ending to make a new WTC claim, after that the SDP gateway has closed and so it's UC.
    It can be done within that month, but you need to be refered to a 'special team' at HMRC to make a new WTC claim in these circumstances.

    Once a month has passed since SDP ended then any new claim for an IR benefit has to be UC.
    However also note that if you are still entitled to some HB then SDP can be included in that (once the ESA has ended).

    Full time or Part Time education and claiming benefits has different, and much more complicated, rules.
    You've given me a lot to go on now. I understand it was vague, so thank you. The LHA would probably be in play from what I gather. I just don't know at which rate. Currently, I am entitled to a second bedroom. If I moved to another part of the country for employment do I continue to be entitled to a 2 bed LHA rate? I am under 35.

    WTC would be in play, I would be looking at a full-time opportunity.

    Regarding study, I am trying to get a picture of how the benefits would be affected for A levels (distance learning), and both part-time & full-time, postgraduate study - if I can get an idea of the financial implications, that will inevitably affect decisions I make in future. Right now it feels like flying blind.

    Regarding PIP - when you inform them of a change e.g. employment, aren't you automatically reviewed and your award lowered?

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    If you are in full time work then any further education will become irrelevant for benefit purposes.
    Any benefits you would still get as a full time worker would not be affected by further education at all.

    LHA is a 'cap' on HB and UC-HE for those who rent from a private landlord.

    From you saying "entitled to a second bedroom" that tells me that you are currently in a social rental and not a private rental, so LHA does not apply.

    The two things are mutually exclusive.
    The 'under-occupancy charge' only applies to social rentals, LHA does not apply to social rentals.
    LHA only applies to private rentals, the under-ocupancy charge does not apply to private rentals.

    So would you be moving to a social rental or a private rental?

    Note again the one month SDP gateway, if you move to a different authority and start work you only have that month to get a HB claim in with the new authority otherwise you have to claim UC.
    (Or you could move while still on ESA with SDP, claim HB, and then start work)

    Yes if you inform PIP that you have started work that is a change of circumstances that would trigger a review. (Covid complicates that a bit).
    Whether your PIP would change will depend on just what work it is and how that ties in with the reason(s) for you having PIP.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    If you are in full time work then any further education will become irrelevant for benefit purposes.
    Any benefits you would still get as a full time worker would not be affected by further education at all.

    LHA is a 'cap' on HB and UC-HE for those who rent from a private landlord.

    From you saying "entitled to a second bedroom" that tells me that you are currently in a social rental and not a private rental, so LHA does not apply.

    The two things are mutually exclusive.
    The 'under-occupancy charge' only applies to social rentals, LHA does not apply to social rentals.
    LHA only applies to private rentals, the under-ocupancy charge does not apply to private rentals.

    So would you be moving to a social rental or a private rental?

    Note again the one month SDP gateway, if you move to a different authority and start work you only have that month to get a HB claim in with the new authority otherwise you have to claim UC.
    (Or you could move while still on ESA with SDP, claim HB, and then start work)

    Yes if you inform PIP that you have started work that is a change of circumstances that would trigger a review. (Covid complicates that a bit).
    Whether your PIP would change will depend on just what work it is and how that ties in with the reason(s) for you having PIP.
    So for example: Current circumstances - social housing with SDP, ESA, PIP, HB, and have the extra bedroom for help. Change to - Move to London (different city) for a full-time disabled work scheme, paid the London Living Wage.

    Someone under 35, single with no children, is usually only entitled to LHA shared accomodation rate. But there are exceptions to this rule. Is a person who gets the above benefits and the second bedroom allowance as a social renter normally viewed as being one of these exceptions? Are they allowed a higher LHA rate to accomodate their housing needs? If so, which rate?

    Yea the 1 month SDP rule is foremost in my mind.

    This is where PIP gets confusing for me - you get it to help you overcome the barriers your disability causes in your life. To help you integrate and live a fuller life. When you get it, you use it to do the things you weren't able to before. Along comes a review, because your circumstances have changed as a direct result. Do they then argue, you are able to do things you couldn't before and take away the PIP? Thereby putting you back where you were in life. It's something I am nervous of.

    In respect to the education question. Perhaps if I gave more info it would help.

    Upon completion of a work scheme <1 year, I wanted to start a Masters degree. Basic pathway: Unemployed + Full Benefits (ESA, PIP, SDP, HB, CT Discount) --> Full-time Work + some benefits --> Postgrad study + ??

    I'm trying to get an idea of the implications for the above benefits. I would want to be able to compare full-time and part-time study to see what is more financially viable. I know that's still vague, sorry.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    If it's a private rental then you would have to talk with the council where you are moving to.

    Having SDP does give an exemption to shared rate, but if you are working then you may no longer have SDP.
    PIP Daily Living also give exemption to shared rate.
    See this for more details: https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Shared-Room

    It's LOCAL Housing Allowance, and whilst the general rates/rules are set by government each council has some leeway as to groups and exemptions, and Local rules.

    With PIP it's a question of what you are doing and what you get PIP for.
    Simple example if you get PIP because you can't walk far then an office job would be OK, postal/delivery work wouldn't.

    If working more than 16 hrs ESA stops.
    HB and CTR will depend on your income. (Not hours worked or anything else that you may be doing like education).
    PIP only depends on the limits imposed by your condition(s).

    SDP is a premium not a benefit in it's own right, it is only paid with either ESA or Housing Benefit. (and a couple of older benefits).
    If you don't have one of those you can't have SDP.

    As I said above, once you are working more than 16 hrs then you will not have any benefit that is affected by education.
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-05-20 at 17:48.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    If it's a private rental then you would have to talk with the council where you are moving to.

    Having SDP does give an exemption to shared rate, but if you are working then you may no longer have SDP.
    PIP Daily Living also give exemption to shared rate.
    See this for more details: https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Shared-Room

    It's LOCAL Housing Allowance, and whilst the general rates/rules are set by government each council has some leeway as to groups and exemptions, and Local rules.

    With PIP it's a question of what you are doing and what you get PIP for.
    Simple example if you get PIP because you can't walk far then an office job would be OK, postal/delivery work wouldn't.

    If working more than 16 hrs ESA stops.
    HB and CTR will depend on your income. (Not hours worked or anything else that you may be doing like education).
    PIP only depends on the limits imposed by your condition(s).

    SDP is a premium not a benefit in it's own right, it is only paid with either ESA or Housing Benefit. (and a couple of older benefits).
    If you don't have one of those you can't have SDP.

    As I said above, once you are working more than 16 hrs then you will not have any benefit that is affected by education.
    Just found this https://assets.publishing.service.go...nce-manual.pdf
    It says with SDP under 35's get HB based on the 1 bedroom LHA rate.

    I would still be entitled to SDP from a PIP standpoint. With my circumstances I can't see how the DWP could take the whole award away even if I started work. I'm searching for what a low income actually means in plain numerical form.

    For education, the most likely situation would probably be finishing up full-time work to pursue full-time education for a year. The question then is can ESA be reinstated?

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I had already said that having SDP exempts from the LHA shared rate.

    And again, the Severe Disability Premium, as its name says is, a premium not a benefit in it's own right.
    It is only ever paid as a 'top-up' to another Income Related benefit, in your case either IR ESA or HB.

    If you don't have one of those other benefits then you don't have an entitlement to SDP.
    SDP is not something that you can be entitled to without having one of the relevant IR benefits for it to be paid with.

    Many people have PIP DL but don't have IR ESA or HB as well, so they don't have an entitlement to SDP.

    If you start work and your IR ESA stops then you cannot go back to IR ESA, any new claim would have to be for UC.
    Unless that is you still have HB, and so have a SDP entitlement with the HB.
    (I said at the start there are a lot of if's and but's depending on exactly what you do).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    I had already said that having SDP exempts from the LHA shared rate.

    And again, the Severe Disability Premium, as its name says is, a premium not a benefit in it's own right.
    It is only ever paid as a 'top-up' to another Income Related benefit, in your case either IR ESA or HB.

    If you don't have one of those other benefits then you don't have an entitlement to SDP.
    SDP is not something that you can be entitled to without having one of the relevant IR benefits for it to be paid with.

    Many people have PIP DL but don't have IR ESA or HB as well, so they don't have an entitlement to SDP.

    If you start work and your IR ESA stops then you cannot go back to IR ESA, any new claim would have to be for UC.
    Unless that is you still have HB, and so have a SDP entitlement with the HB.
    (I said at the start there are a lot of if's and but's depending on exactly what you do).
    Maybe I've been unclear. I do understand all that from your first post. I understand the SDP only gets paid in with HB or ESA. You were quite clear that ESA would no longer apply if working more than 16 hours.

    What I was trying to find out next - which was in the link - was if you get SDP in HB upon commencing work, then what rate of LHA are you ('exempt from shared rate' doesn't give a clear answer)... is it 1 or 2 bed? (I know social and private operate differently) But I was struggling to find an answer. The only info I had to go on was that someone getting those benefits was exempt from shared rate. But as I said, now we know someone with SDP, HB, PIP gets 1 bed LHA rate according to that document.

    Before I went off work due to my health a few years back, I had no experience with benefits. Therefore, I've never worked and claimed which is why it is all very confusing. I have the broad outlines but I'm ignorant on the minutia.

    A member of my family recently stumbled onto the fact she should have been in receipt of HB because of her low income. So my last question would be, all things being equal, what qualifies as the threshold for a full-time worker? How low, does low income need to be?

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    As I said it's the if's/but's that are making things unclear, compounded by the fact that there are three different changes of circumstances involved each with their own if/but's.
    1-Moving House, 2-Starting work, and 3-Possibly starting education.

    But we seem to have got there on the applicable LHA rate, 1 bedroom rate.

    For your family member:

    Unless she has SDP herself (or is living in 'specified' accommodation, not likely to apply) then she can't claim HB now and has to claim UC instead for the Housing Element.
    If she does have SDP then come back and we'll try again with HB.

    UC does not have an 'earnings threshold' as such, it's worked out differently so that it doesn't just stop if your wages reach a threshold.

    Instead when you claim UC they work out the maximum UC you should be entited to- Standard Allowance + housing element + any other elements.
    Then they deduct your earnings from that total UC at 63p for every £ earned, and deduct any other (non-earnings) income £ for £.
    If she has limited capability for work, or is responsible for a child, then she will also have a 'Work Allowance' which is an amount she can earn before they start deducting at 63p/£.
    There will also be a dedction for any savings over £6K.

    What is left after the deductions are taken from the maximum UC then gets paid as UC.

    If your earnings/income vary every month then your UC will also vary to reflect what you have earned that month.

    This explains it: https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Ca...iversal-Credit

    The next step she should take:
    At the bottom of that webpage there is a further link to a benefits calculator, your relative should run that calculator - enter her details, rent, wages, any benefits, etc. into that calculator and it will tell her how much UC she will be entitled to if she claims.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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