Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Moving around descriptor use of aids

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    12

    Moving around descriptor use of aids

    in the UC50 is says

    By moving we mean including the use of aids you usually use such as a manual wheelchair, crutches or a
    walking stick but without the help of another person.


    How does this apply if i don't usually use an aid? For example i have difficulty walking but i don't use a wheel chair, Would i be expected to use a wheel chair or a walking stick before i would meet the criteria?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,440
    No - it's just that if you do use aids they should be mentioned. Sometimes they can suggest that you would move more easily with use of an aid and award points as though you were using one even when you're not.

  3. #3
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoodle View Post
    Sometimes they can suggest that you would move more easily with use of an aid and award points as though you were using one even when you're not.
    Yeah that's my worry, Technically i guess if i used a wheel chair then sure i could wheel my self 100 metres without much of a problem, I can't however walk normal on my feet without a lot of pain though. Under what kind of circumstances do they tend to suggest and award as though you used an aid like a wheel chair?

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    425
    I would say its more than sometimes, its extremely likely they will assess you based on if they think you can mobilise in a wheelchair.

    So be prepared to challenge it, as they seem to hold little concern for practicality of using a wheelchair, they are medical professionals and should know no one should be using one unless medically advised to and also after been assessed as able to use one.
    Last edited by worried33; 24-06-20 at 14:45.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,942
    With a Work Capability Assessment' the descriptor is about "Mobilising" and not about 'Walking".

    "Mobilising" includes mobilising in a wheelchair, and legally that applies even if you don't own a wheelchair.

    The argument is that you could get a free one from the NHS, so you are choosing not to use one.
    (Even though you can't always get one from the NHS, they don't have stacks of suitable wheelchairs just lying around).

    To counter wheelchair use you would have to be able to show that you can't use a manual wheelchair for other reasons (no arms?), and by your own admission that is not the case.
    i guess if i used a wheel chair then sure i could wheel my self 100 metres without much of a problem,
    It's known as "The imaginary wheelchair" in benefit circles and it's no use arguing about it, that's been tried many times in court and the legal position is that they are correct in law to consider whether you could mobilise with a wheelchair.

    It's the same with any other 'aid', if you could reasonably obtain and use one to help you to work, or get to work, then they can consider that you do have and do use it.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  6. #6
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    12
    I appreciate the clarification.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    425
    For what its worth Hayley.

    Most of my WCA's the assessor pretended I could use a wheelchair.
    I explained I cannot even use one where I live (property isnt suitable), it would have to be kept in open at front.
    My GP specifically said I shouldnt be using one, not even a neutral stance, I was basically ordered to not use one as not suitable.
    I also raised the point of it been a health and safety issue as havent been assess for using one.

    The HCP's are supposed to take this stuff into account.

    Because of this the DM's have overruled 3 times now without me needing to MR, they did it by themselves, i seen it in the DM reports.

    Although on my most recent WCA this wasnt done because LCWRA was recommended for a different reason.

    On 2 of the 3 occasions I know this was done because of the audio recording, they used my vocal evidence at the assessment.

    Ironically I have tried a wheelchair and they a lot harder to use than you would think, the view that one needs to have severe limb issues to not be able to use one I consider a myth, it requires a lot of upper body strength, and dexterity. So it might be worth trying one, and making notes of the problems you had as well as any practical barriers you have, medical advice etc. Doctors normally want their patients to be as active as possible, using wheelchairs goes against that principle.

    I remember also been on the phone for over an hour to a DM about this descriptor, this DM was one of those who has a fantasy view, it was at that time when I had my ESA stopped due to missing an assessment, so several years ago now, and we somehow got talking about this descriptor, she was painting a fantasy story how wheelchairs enable everyone to compete on a level field for jobs, how most employers have adapted there is no employability issues etc. I didnt bother trying to question that but I asked the simple question "how do you feel about people been assessed on what if's instead of facts", and she just refused to answer like an MP dodging the question. One of the strangest conversation's I have ever had with a DM, normally DM's are polite, they only talk about the issue at hand, but this was a very political conversation.
    Last edited by worried33; 24-06-20 at 22:50.

  8. #8
    There is guidance that says that a person should be scored as needing aids/another person if when they were to use it/them they could do the activity, even if they don't currently receive/use it.

    Obviously there would need to be an explanation as to why not - financial, no occupational therapy assessment yet, person who could help is self-isolating or their own health has deteriorated etc. And you would need to explain not having that aid/another person limits your ability to complete the activity reliably, repeatedly and within an acceptable manner and time.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayley1985 View Post
    in the UC50 is says

    By moving we mean including the use of aids you usually use such as a manual wheelchair, crutches or a
    walking stick but without the help of another person.


    How does this apply if i don't usually use an aid? For example i have difficulty walking but i don't use a wheel chair, Would i be expected to use a wheel chair or a walking stick before i would meet the criteria?
    This is an interesting point, but it can be looked at from a different angle. I'm not sure what type of pain you suffer from but wheelchairs can be very uncomfortable and very few surfaces are flat. Just a short ride from a hospital car park to an outpatients appointment can be so bumpy and this often makes pain so much worse due to the jolting around.

    In my PIP assessment I made this argument. The HP understood and said in her report that a wheelchair would be unsuitable due to this reasoning, that the use of a wheelchair in most circumstances would exacerbate the pain.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Posts
    8,942
    A PIP assessment is different to a Work Capability Assessment for ESA/UC.

    The laws for what is to be considered are different.

    PIP law does specify 'Walking' distances so wheelchairs are not considered. - ESA/UC law specifies 'Mobilising' distances which includes wheelchair use.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

Similar Threads

  1. Moving around descriptor.
    By phillius in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-05-20, 21:23
  2. If you use a wheelchair, do you have/use another mobility aid?
    By chris10164 in forum Surveys, research requests and TV programmes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 20-11-17, 11:23
  3. pain and moving around
    By carl30 in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 14-08-15, 09:45
  4. A few simple questions about PIP moving around descriptor
    By catlover in forum Benefits - help & advice on disability benefits, incapacity benefits, ESA and DLA
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 05-07-14, 18:48
  5. To use or not to use! here is the question?
    By notnamedbill in forum Ask a question about equipment
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 27-11-13, 23:13

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •