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Thread: Moving around descriptor use of aids

  1. #11
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Some interesting points made there, I really need to try a wheel chair to see if it would be suitable, I am hoping i score enough points from the difficulties arising from my mental health but obviously if i could have scored points due to my physical health also that would have been a help. I think its worth looking into the potential difficulties using a wheel chair may come with though after all, i may just be assuming i could use one but without trying one i don't know for sure.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Mobilising in ESA includes wheelchair usage by default, but as I said if a valid reason is provided to deem them unsuitable, they are supposed to be removed from consideration, it is "not" a unconditional inclusion. If a valid reason is accepted, then the mobilising test is done "without" that aid.

    The problem I have always had is the HCP's seem to only consider extreme situations as valid reasons, like having no arms. They living in fairy tale land.

    I am still shocked that no one has even dared to take this descriptor to the court, as it is effectively deciding people's fate on "what if's". But maybe the law has been setup in such a way that this is unchallengeable?

    I think blind people have a similar problem, someone blind without a dog to help them get assessed with the assumption they have a dog.

    The reasons I believe my vocal evidence has been accepted by DM's is it is one thing to tell someone who hasnt considered a wheelchair they can use one, but it is another thing entirely to tell someone who has been specifically told by consultant's and their GP to "not" use one that they could use one, the latter has shaky legal ground. ESA has regulations that allow people to qualify if a decision to be made fit for work would endanger them, when descriptors conflict with medical advice, that is one such reason where those regulations may come into play.

    Hayley I really think you need to try one, I think many people assume its easy, like you in an armchair, put your legs in a position where they stop hurting, and its as easy as going downhill on a bike right? The reality is you feel every bump, you have to go up hill as well as downhill, moving it even on level ground is difficult, you sit in a very cramped forced position, there is also neck dexterity to consider as well, as to look to your side you will be relying more on turning your head.

    Doctors hate people using wheelchairs as it reduces blood circulation and keeps your legs in one position, its a last resort.
    Last edited by worried33; 26-06-20 at 01:33.

  3. #13
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    West Cumbria (Lake District)
    Quote Originally Posted by worried33 View Post
    But maybe the law has been setup in such a way that this is unchallengeable?
    That's it exactly.

    The way the law is written then unless there is a particular reason why you can't use a manual wheelchair then the assessors have to take possible chair use into account.

    Not 'can' but 'have to', by the wording of the law they have no choice about it.

    The Activity is written in the legislation as:
    1. Mobilising unaided by another
    person with or without a walking
    stick, manual wheelchair or other
    aid if such aid is normally, or
    could reasonably be, worn or used.
    It's that 'could reasonably be' that says that they have to consider a wheelchair - if you could use one.

    So to argue against that you would have to show that it would be "unreasonable" for you to use a manual wheelchair.

    The only only way to change that would be to get the wording of mobilising Activity changed in the legislation to specificaly exclude wheelchairs.

    Just leaving the words 'manual wheelchair' out wouldn't work as a wheelchair would still have to be considered as an 'other aid'.

    In fact by specifying 'manual wheelchair' the wording as it is does exclude powered chairs as being an aid that could be considered, if they took the words 'manual wheelchairs' out of the Activity then powered chairs (and mobility scooters) would also have to be considered as a possible 'other aid'.
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