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Thread: ESA Support Group DWP's PW1 Employed Work Form help

  1. #1

    Question ESA Support Group DWP's PW1 Employed Work Form help

    Hi all new to this thread.

    I have read the DWP's PW1 form and I quote from this form:

    "By supported permitted work we mean work that is supervised by someone because you have a disability, illness or health condition."

    So this concludes there's 2 types or permitted work in the PW1 form?:

    - Supported permitted work
    - Non supported permitted work

    Reading the DWP quotation above, support permitted work indicates the claimant has a disability, illness or health condition however the form allows for non supported permitted work right? Non-supported permitted work indicates the opposite said above of the claimant which may trigger a reassessment which could result in the claimant benefit being loss after the failed reassessment correct?

    The question is if DWP allows for non supported permitted work for ESA support group claimants and the claimant get punished (reassessment) for doing so then how is it the claimant's fault in the 1st place?

    For example lets take a few of the biggest employers in the UK job marketplace that are always hiring (good job security because these companies are mega rich corporations that can always afford to employ people) but mostly at the minimum wage:

    - Mcdonalds
    - Amazon

    As long the work is less than 16hrs a week and the claimant put Amazon or Mcdonalds in the PW1 form then when that data from PW1 is inputted by a DWP employee into the DWP computer then will the DWP computer trigger a reassessment for the claimant? Because there's dozens of job roles in those companies ranging from low paid frontline hard workers to top salary desk managing directors.

    Does a minimum wage job sends a indicator to the DWP indicating that the job is physically demanding and not suited for ESA claimants? Because we always have that association that low paid jobs are the hardest to do in a company.

    Otherwise to prevent a reassessment what job titles are ESA friendly and which company names to avoid?

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There are two questions there.

    The first is about the difference between Supported Permitted Work and simply Permitted Work.

    Supported Permitted Work is:
    Work that is "supervised by someone from a local council or voluntary organisation who arranges work for disabled people" or is "part of treatment programme under medical supervision".

    It tells you that on the PW1, right after the line you quoted.
    It also tells you before that quoted line that your "professional support worker" must fill in part 3 of the form.

    It's a special class of PW. (It would have been better named 'Supervised Permitted Work').

    Permitted Work is:
    Any other work that is less than 16 hours a week and pays less than 16x minimum wage.

    The other question is about if doing PW will affect your claim.
    The answer is - It all depends on why you have been awarded ESA and what the work you are doing is.
    (Who the work is for doesn't matter, just what the job is).

    If you are on ESA because you can't mobilise then going door to door doing a leaflet delivery round would indicate that you can in fact mobilise and there is something fishy about your claim.
    But doing a desk job would be fine.

    If you are on ESA because you can't lift things then stacking shelves, or using heavy tools, or pulling pints in a pub would indicate that you can in fact lift things and there is something fishy about your claim.
    But doing paperwork, maybe typing on a computer, would be fine.

    If you are on ESA because you have frequent spells of unconciousness then getting a job as a bus/taxi driver would definitely say there is something dodgy with your claim.

    People can be on ESA for Mental Health issues, that's no barrier to them doing physical work.

    You get the idea?
    As long as the work you are doing does not contradict the reason for you being on ESA then there is no problem.
    If you are doing something that you have told ESA you are unable to do, and been awarded ESA because you can't do it, then it's a sign of a fraudulent claim and they will want to investigate.
    The first step of which would be to ask if your circumstances have changed, if you say no change then they will want to know how you are doing PW that involves tasks that you have said you couldn't do.
    They wouldn't reassess, they'd start a fraud investigation.

    I've sent in a PW1 a few times, it's never triggered a reassessment. (Because the work I was doing did not contradict the reason for my being awarded ESA).
    Last edited by nukecad; 21-11-20 at 20:31.
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  3. #3
    Thank you for the helpful reply. Understand most if out now.

    So it all comes down to the job title and DWP will know what tasks you do in the job as you will list them down in the PW1 form correct?

    Do you know a job search site that lists jobs advertised that are compatible with support permitted work?

    Lastly do you know any job titles that are overall approved like for permitted work apart from the easy office job that you mentioned?

    Cheers,

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Yes, part 2 of the PW1 asks:
    "Please tell us the sort of things you do at work"

    Have you seen a PW1?
    You can download one from this post (the PW forms are about 2/3 way down): https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...standard-forms

    Supported Permitted Work has to be organised through your Council Welfare Department, or the 'medical supervisor' of your treatment programme if you are on one.
    It's not something that you can just do yourself, you have to be sent on it as part of another programme.

    'Normal' PW you can just do yourself, what job you'd like to do or try is up to you.
    There is no list of 'allowed' jobs, any job is fine as long as doing it does not conflict with your reason for being awarded ESA.

    What work you can do will obviously depend on why you have claimed, and been awarded, ESA in the first place.
    That will be different for everyone, which is why they have a form.

    As you are unsure of the rules then filling in a PW1 is the best thing to do if you are already doing or about to start any work.

    Are you getting ESA?
    Are you considering PW?
    Are you already working?

    If you tell us why you get ESA and what job you are considering (or maybe are already doing? That's not a problem BTW if it's within the rules) then we could give an opinion.

    It's not a problem if you are already doing work that is within the rules, you don't actually need to get 'permission' to do Permitted Work, but unless you are very, very, clear on the rules that could be risky.

    Filling a PW1 lets the DWP know that you are/will be working and lets them check that the particular work is within the rules for you to do, they will then send you a letter saying that it's OK for you to do it.

    If you do work without clearing it with them then they will probably (almost certainly these days) find out and wonder why you didn't tell them, they may suspect benefit fraud and then they will then want to know a lot more.
    Last edited by nukecad; 22-11-20 at 22:37.
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  5. #5
    Interested in Normal Permitted work.

    I cant find any job that is minimum wage & less physically demanding like a office desk job for example. Office jobs pay higher than minimum wage. All minimum wage jobs I'm seeing involves physical demand of both the arms and legs (labour jobs). If employer allows extra breaks or has disability aids to help with the labour shift, a labour job that conflicts with my esa claim then will that cause a problem to my esa?

    Okay so after filling out a PW1 form the DWP will send a letter confirming job has passed their criteria related to my esa claim?

    When is the deadline to send the PW1 form? Most jobs nowadays are 0 hours contracts or through temp agencies with no guarantee of a job after the employer recruitment program so is it okay to send the PW1 form after starting my 1st shift just to make sure?

    What if I fill the PW1 form in advance anticipating that I will get the job but dont get it at then end? I will just get a green light letter from DWP just saying job is okay with them or red light letter saying opposite but if I do get a red light letter from DWP but dont get the job then there will be no problem with my esa claim correct?
    Last edited by very452001; 23-11-20 at 16:09.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    You can take a job that pays more than min wage, but you'd have to work less hours so that you didn't exceed 16x min wage per week.

    ESA is all about if you can manage any work or not, if you say you can't manage such-and-such work and then get a job that involves doing such-and-such work then that shows that you haven't told them the truth. (or that your capabilities have changed since then and you haven't told them about the changes).

    Yes they send you a confirmation letter; it's called a DLPW1 and you can download an example in that link I gave in my last post.

    There is no deadline for sending in a PW1, as I said above it is not even strictly necessary even to send one, as long as you are very sure that the work you are doing does not fall foul of the rules.
    (I've done self-employed work without sending in a PW1 but I am very sure of the rules, and of course I kept detailed records of hours works per day/week and monies paid in case the DWP later question it).

    If you are not totally sure then send a PW1.
    If you want to cover your backside with the DWP then send in a PW1.

    If you don't start the work then there is no problem at all.
    (You might want to tell the DWP that you didn't start, but it's not realy necessary).
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  7. #7
    Okay I thought it was obligatory to send in that PW1 form to DWP otherwise wouldn't it be classed as fraud to work without notifying them via the PW1 form or DWP will know automatically anyway through HMRC? Part-time minimum wage work isn't taxed anyway right so will HMRC register correctly?

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There is a difference between something being 'Permitted', and having to 'get Permission' to do something.

    The PW1 allows the DWP to check that the work is 'Permitted'.

    You are very unclear on the PW rules - send in a PW1 form to get any work you intend to do approved.

    If you start working without sending in a PW1 you are likely to be investigated by the DWP.

    Let the tax man sort out any tax.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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