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Thread: My 16 year old daughter's pip claim has been refused after waiting 7 MONTHS!

  1. #11
    Senior Member galeforce81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flymo View Post
    That's not a stupid question at all.

    The PIP Regulations make it clear that you have to be able to do something as often as reasonably required to be assessed as able to do it.

    Someone who will only bathe or wash with assistance, but will only take (or only has) that assistance once per week, needs the assistance every day as the expectation is bathing or washing at least once per day. The points allocation system for PIP is quite complex, but, at minimum, your flatmate is likely to get the points for needing assistance washing and bathing. That said, it's never possible to be certain in a forum context, as I don't have all the information in front of me.

    As I said above "your task is to put up the best argument you can and let the decision maker award the points". If you're not sure whether something is relevant, explain it anyway.


    Together with the information in the sticky PIP thread, does that help?
    Absolutely, thanks Flymo.

    Just concerned because at my DLA renewal (i was getting MRC HRM) i told them that i don't drink anything a few hours before bed so that i don't need the toilet during the night and therefore don't need to ask for help, they classed this as me not needing help and only awarded me LRC.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by galeforce81 View Post
    Just concerned because at my DLA renewal (i was getting MRC HRM) i told them that i don't drink anything a few hours before bed so that i don't need the toilet during the night and therefore don't need to ask for help, they classed this as me not needing help and only awarded me LRC.
    Effectively, you eliminated the need by your own actions. You can't be assessed as needing help with something that doesn't exist, if that makes sense.

  3. #13
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    Well we got the paperwork through about the decision & discovered they didn't have the PIP 2 form (the reason is because we never got the PIP 2 form in the first place! and they never bothered to ask why they didn't get it back) and so they said their decision was based on the assessment. which they had down as December and it was November.
    The results are:
    Daily living component -

    preparing food - score 2 = needs aid or appliance to prepare or cook simple meal
    taking nutrition - score 0 = you can eat & drink unaided
    managing therapy - score 0 = you can either manage medication / therapy or monitor your health condition unaided or you don't need to
    washing & bathing - score 0 = you can wash & bathe unaided
    managing toilet needs or incontinence - score 0 = you can manage your toilet needs or incontinence unaided
    dressing & undressing - score 0 = you can dress & undress unaided
    communicating verbally - score 0 = you can express & understand verbal information unaided
    reading & understanding signs,symbols & words - score 0 = you can read & understand basic & complex written information either unaided or using glasses or contact lenses
    engaging with other people face to face - score 2 = you need to be prompted by another person to engage with other people
    making budgeting decisions - score 2 = you need prompting or assistance from another person to make complex budgeting decisions

    Mobility component she was scored on:

    Planning and following journeys - score 4 = you need prompting from another person to undertake a journey to avoid causing you significant mental distress
    moving around - score 0 = you can stand & then move more than 200 metres either aided or unaided

    So her daily living score was 6 in total and her mobility score was 4 in total.

    Apparently I have to tell the person who rings to speak about the decision that we never had the PIP 2 form.

    The items mentioned by the decision maker from the assessment have been written wrongly and as such a lot of it has been misunderstood.

  4. #14
    The main purpose of the PIP2 is to inform the assessment. In my case, a PIP2 was sent, I returned it and the assessor had it, but it is not mentioned in the decision letter, presumably because the decision maker did not refer directly to it. All the decision maker needed was in my assessment report, as it happened to be comprehensive and accurate.

    It was a procedural error for DWP not to send a PIP2, and you should raise this with the decision maker. However, your daughter cannot be awarded PIP because a procedural error was made. The factual errors are annoying but unimportant unless they led to an incorrect conclusion. It is crucial not to go in 'all guns blazing' over these errors. You must keep the focus on demonstrating it is more likely than not that your daughter meets the criteria to be awarded PIP, as that is the only way to get her PIP.


    I've given a suggested approach to reconsideration in the sticky PIP thread (it's at the end of the linked post) - it will help a great deal if you get a copy of the assessment report as soon as possible.


    I hope this thread has helped you to focus on arguments for the award of benefit, though we haven't discussed every activity.

  5. #15
    Senior Member flowerangelx's Avatar
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    Oh my.

    I've read this post several times and have finally plucked up the courage to reply as it really hit home for me as this could have been easily written about me and how I am in general. I read the post and my heart sank that there is yet another young person who has clearly been let down by more than one system.

    Unfortunately it's very difficult to pick up a lot of the points that you should when it comes to mental health. Others may disagree with me, but, as my sister has told me many times(she worked in Mental Health for 4 years, and specialised in helping people claim DLA/ESA/PIP for her job.) it's proving that the descriptors are relevant to you that is difficult. Yes, you know best, but, they can not build up a correct picture on how life is day and night.

    I will probably add more to this in the morning when I have thought more about it...it has frazzled my brain a little because I'm currently awaiting my PIP result based on both Mental Health and Physical Health. :/

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by flowerangelx View Post
    Unfortunately it's very difficult to pick up a lot of the points that you should when it comes to mental health. Others may disagree with me, but, as my sister has told me many times(she worked in Mental Health for 4 years, and specialised in helping people claim DLA/ESA/PIP for her job.) it's proving that the descriptors are relevant to you that is difficult. Yes, you know best, but, they can not build up a correct picture on how life is day and night.
    Your sister is quite right, flower - indeed, I'd extend her assessment to many physical health conditions, which do not always cause obvious and easily understandable problems.

    This is why I keep talking about painting a picture. As I've tried to explain in this thread, there can be a large gap between identifying a problem and conveying a clear enough picture of that problem, its effects, and how often it occurs to paint a clear picture in the decision maker's mind and score an appropriate number of points. Case presentation can be so important, yet there's so little help available.


    In this case, the assessor was set up to fail by there being no PIP2 for him/her to read and refer to. When details can be crucial to scoring points, it must be hard not to have a description of the claimant's problems in their own words or the words of someone who knows them well.

    The clock cannot be turned back - the important thing is to make the best possible reconsideration submission to try to put things right. Sight of the assessment report will indicate where the explanations need to be focused.

  7. #17
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    Flymo, my daughter has asked me to thank you for your help and insight into her PIP nightmare.

    My daughter has also asked me to thank you Flowerangel for your thoughts as its hard for her to realise that she is not alone in this and that she hopes it all goes well for you.
    Well here goes on the start of the road to reconsideration, if I can work on my daughter's depression to "keep her head above water" things are so drastic
    I just hope she doesn't start to become suicidal & self harm again she did for some time after she was being groomed by a 19 year old while she was only 13 (the boy was her friends brother I only found out when the police got involved and her started ranting down the phone at her saying it was her fault).
    I do think that the PIP criteria is inadequate for assessing anyone with a mental impairment, and is more orientated towards physical disabilities - although it seems distinctly inadequate for that too.

  8. #18
    Senior Member flowerangelx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Flymo, my daughter has asked me to thank you for your help and insight into her PIP nightmare.

    My daughter has also asked me to thank you Flowerangel for your thoughts as its hard for her to realise that she is not alone in this and that she hopes it all goes well for you.
    Well here goes on the start of the road to reconsideration, if I can work on my daughter's depression to "keep her head above water" things are so drastic
    I just hope she doesn't start to become suicidal & self harm again she did for some time after she was being groomed by a 19 year old while she was only 13 (the boy was her friends brother I only found out when the police got involved and her started ranting down the phone at her saying it was her fault).
    I do think that the PIP criteria is inadequate for assessing anyone with a mental impairment, and is more orientated towards physical disabilities - although it seems distinctly inadequate for that too.
    If you or your daughter want to talk more, feel free to ask for my email address if there are things that neither of you want to say on here..I know how difficult it is, and she is certainly not alone.

    Because of her age, it's a tricky one for help. A lot of childrens services don't really want to know, and the adult services won't help as she is too young. I went through all of that..I find it shocking that there isn't more help on that child/adult borderline.

    It's hard to tell when someone is likely to self harm - but even tiny things can trigger it off. I once hurt myself because my bag wasn't where I had left it and I spent the next two days in bed as it caused me that much mental harm.

    I'll be interested to see what has been put in my report, though.

  9. #19
    I can only endorse flower's wise and compassionate comments. I haven't had these sort of mental health problems myself, but they have affected people I love. I am sure flower speaks from the heart.


    Try to remember this is not intended as a personal attack on your daughter much as I understand it is hard on her mental health. The DWP have yet to understand her problems fully, which is why she hasn't been awarded PIP. Everyone, including the assessor, was let down by the lack a PIP2.

    What matters now is making a good quality reconsideration application targeted at those areas where she was under assessed. The assessment report will help you understand the reasoning that led to the points she had, which might help indicate those arguments you now need to make - just remember the task is making the case for benefit, not correcting the assessment report. I hope you can use the advice and links I've already given to good effect.


    So far as the criteria go, they're not perfect, but they do have some advantages over DLA for people with mental health problems. In particular, people who have no physical problems walking, but need someone with them when out of doors, maybe due to a sensory impairment or mental health problems, could only get lower rate Mobility DLA but can get enhanced rate Mobility PIP.

  10. #20
    Senior Member TheFlyingKidney's Avatar
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    Reading this thread with interest, as while I've survived the change to ESA (from income support) PIP will most likely hit me this or next year when my DLA runs out.

    I've become a seasoned form filler, and my lord they are stressful, requiring time, many cups of tea and a certain amount of cross referencing and swearing. (in my case anyway)

    Apart from the very useful info here.
    I can recommend. Always keeping copies of the forms before you send them, and working on a draft before the final form.
    Date everything received and add name and NI number to any accompanying info (on any form)

    The resources I use the most, and recommend are
    the Benefits and Work website.
    the MIND publication, the Big Book of Benefits
    Disability Rights UK.
    Local social services/CAB/ any charity that deals with your own condition. In my case both the NKF and BKPA offer a certain amount of support for those facing the new benefit claims.


    I hope the above can be a useful addition to the thread.

    J

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